Real Points vs. Countdown Points (1 Viewer)

justafan

Nitro Member
For some of those Maters who dislike the Countdown (I think there might be a few), I have compiled the cumulative points throughout the course of the season. This is not meant in any way to take anything away from the newly crowned champions, but more of an indication of which teams/drivers were the most consistent throughout the entire season, not the final 6 races. Some interesting finds, especially Butner and Sampey (wonder what they would have done if they ran the full schedule). Hey, it's snowing like hell here and I've got a little time before Street Car Super National stream starts to heat up. Silly season has officially begun in the Midwest. February can't get here soon enough.

TF
1. Brown 1987
2. Schumacher 1749
3. Crampton 1532
4. Dixon 1437
5. Langdon 1392
6. Kalitta 1390
7. B. Force 1364
8. Todd 1265
9. S. Torrence 1263
10. Connolly 1196
11. Millican 1119 (23 races)

FC
1. Beckman 1956
2. Worsham 1753
3. T. Johnson 1749
4. Hagan 1618
5. Capps 1552
6. J. Force 1425
7. Hight 1409
8. Wilkerson 1261
9. DeJoria 1218
10. C. Pedregon 1184
11. C. Force 1101

PS
1. Enders 2165
2. Anderson 1911
3. McGaha 1676
4. Line 1546
5. A. Johnson 1453
6. Morgan 1371
7. Skillman 1370
8. Nobile 1306
9. S. Gray 1268
10. J. Gray 1195
11. Gaines 888
12. Butner 869 (16 races)

PSM
1. Krawiec 1356
2. Hines 1272
3. Savoie 1153
4. H. Arana Jr. 1105
5. M. Smith 992
6. Stofffer 895
7. Ellis 890
8. H. Arana 810
9. Underdahl 730
10. S. Johnson 695 (15 races)
11. Tonglet 691 (12 races)
12. Pollacheck 646
13. A. Smith 532 (15 races)
14. Sampey 501 (7 races)
15. Kennedy 479 (12 races)
 
Oh, YES. There a more than just a few of us, that still miss the TRUE "SEASON" CHAMPIONSHIP as opposed to the c/d fiasco.
Thanks for the post, I was wondering...........
 
No FIASCO here, I loved the added excitement the countdown brings every year to the final race of the year. Erica vs. Line last year, Force vs. Hagan, both of Del's championships, plus more, all products of the Countdown.
 
The winner in about every pro class would have won by around 2000 points. How exciting would that have been for the majority of fans?
 
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And the problem with that IS....?
The focus would have just spotlighted on 2nd vs 3rd
The Worsham vs Beckman battle at Pomona should make it pretty clear. I know i wouldn't be very excited to watch a championship race with a 2000 point spread. I doubt very few really care that much about 2nd and 3rd.
 
I find it funny how much social media blew up yesterday with people complaining about the Nascar Chase.


I could care less if it's wrapped up early. We remember dominance and greatness, now we reward average and make sure everyone gets a ribbon so that they can feel like they were part a championship run. You used to watch most of the races because even if wrapped up early, most still counted. Now at best only 6 count and really you just have to watch the last 2.
 
That's the mentality this brings. We don't won't to let teams lose too bad, we don't want to appreciate greatness so after 3/4 of the season lets bunch them up, let non playoff teams in, just for fun and start over. With TV numbers and fans in stands numbers dropping compared to where they were, it would seem this hasn't worked. Nascar has found the same issue, although somehow they actually made their system even worse this year.

College football took forever to drop the BCS, while not perfect, they are a step closer to getting it right. I imagine the NHRA will eventually come around and either make the season matter again or go to a real playoff system
 
So why is it OK to have a college football playoff in which last year the best team all season wasn't crowned Champion? How can the 4 seed be better than the 1 seed?
The Kansas City Royals weren't the best regular season team, but they sure are the World Champions.
In both cases, the teams qualified for the playoffs, and then won the playoffs.

I for one LOVED Del and Jack racing head to head winner take all. Just like last year with Erica and Jason. You didn't?

Just for the record there were those who HATED when the point system was put into play and wanted the World Champion to be the World Finals winner, (the way it used to be) no matter what happened all season long.

Not arguing, just disscussing
AR
 
Love it or hate it, if the purpose was to bump up interest , ratings, or attendance, I don't believe it has acheived its goal. a playoff format is not gonna attract new viewers/fans. at best it will draw the faithful, to the track or TV and I'm not sure if that has happened.
 
highly doubt ANYONE goes to indy because they can't wait to see who makes the countdown.
from sonoma on this year IMO more folks came out to see how low the et's mite be, and the fans were rewarded this year
with a 2nd half season of unexpected performance.....something that can't, won't and doesn't happen every year.
you can't tell me there is a single fan that flew to a race after indy solely due to the points races.
the C is b.s. and everyone knows it.....but for some reason the gimic works; it is a level of cohesiveness for the last 1/3 of the season and probably has produced more 'winner take all' match-ups than in years past (amato/ormsby).....it's fodder for the tv and event announcers; IMO something nhra hopes will hook a casual fan......is it working? no clue....looking at bleachers i would guess no for event attendance.....are the nielsen ratings higher for the last 6 races? that would be interesting to know.
do you change it or remove it? IMO no, it works well the way it is, arguably a slightly more entertaining points pkg. than it's predecessor.
 
Hey Alan, speaking of points, any chance of any other changes? I would propose making qualifying points one per position starting at 16 for 1st, 15 for 2nd, and on down. Not only does it allow for the potential to make up more points during qualifying, but also makes it really easy to understand for the fans. Hey Jack needs to pick up 4 points on Del.. all he's gotta do is run x.xx ET and qualify 4 spots above him. Make each position count.

You could also follow the NASCAR route of a bigger bonus for winning. Throw and extra 10 or 20 for winning a race. The final round should have more importance than any other round would be the mentality. You've earned 20 per round to get this far, now that you've made the final 2, you get a little extra for pulling this off.

Just some thoughts. 10 for showing up, 12 for qualifying session points sweep, 16 for the pole, 120 for the win. Throw in the potential for a national record ET and you have 178. You could even give a point for low ET and a point for top speed to make it an even 180, or bring back 20 points for a MPH record and make it an even 200.
 
I find it funny how much social media blew up yesterday with people complaining about the Nascar Chase.

Well do you understand why? It was not the fact that there is a Chase, it was the rule about having to make all the races unless otherwise approved by NASCAR. Kyle Busch had a crash in the Xfinity (Lucas Oil Sportsman Series in NHRA) race in Daytona that broke his leg. NASCAR allowed him to still be allowed to make the Chase even though he missed the first 11 races of the season. He had to win a race and make the top 30 in points. He won 4 and made the top 30, so he advanced into the Chase. He then proceeded to continue advancing and finally won Homestead and the championship and he missed 30% of the races. I should add there are things that happened during the Chase such as Kevin Harvick causing a wreck (possibly intentionally) to end Talladega under caution and knocking out Dale Earnhardt Jr and assuring Harvick advanced. Then you had Matt Kenseth go wrecking ball on Joey Logano at Martinsville, effectively taking the 2nd best car all season out of the Chase. Then Phoenix, the last eliminator race, happened to get cut short due to rain, locking 3 of the last 4 in. It didn't help that during the final race there was a phantom "debris" caution with 10 laps to go to make it a shootout for the championship. There are too many outside factors and race manipulations over there to take NASCAR, let alone the Chase, seriously.

It's kind of like Erica skipping a few races last year and still winning the championship. However, imagine if she skipped 7 races. Just took a few months off, still made the top 10, then went on to win the Countdown. Would you cry foul or would you commend her amazing comeback performance? Those are the differing viewpoints.
 
So why is it OK to have a college football playoff in which last year the best team all season wasn't crowned Champion? How can the 4 seed be better than the 1 seed?
The Kansas City Royals weren't the best regular season team, but they sure are the World Champions.
In both cases, the teams qualified for the playoffs, and then won the playoffs.

I for one LOVED Del and Jack racing head to head winner take all. Just like last year with Erica and Jason. You didn't?

Just for the record there were those who HATED when the point system was put into play and wanted the World Champion to be the World Finals winner, (the way it used to be) no matter what happened all season long.

Not arguing, just disscussing
AR

I like discussing :)

I prefer a season long go at it. It covers running hot weather, cool weather, highs, lows...basically you have to run the gauntlet. Every race is already a playoff and the season is a full run at a title. We have no timeouts, no half time. Just strap in and go. From the beginning this system went against the very fabric of the sport.
I remember as a kid, Bernstein dominating in the 80s's and Glidden being nuts over everyone. I hear people talk about Snake in the 70's. Of course we had Force forever dominating too. We remember these years and drivers because of their greatness. Now we don't allow for greatness, we pull them back. Will anyone go all out like Beckman did so early this year? He would have walked away with the championship, instead he gave others the blueprint. Now once drivers are in, they should hold back. Some have admitted going into test mode, why bother going to those races as a fan.When you think of sports championships you don't remember the years some mediocre team got hot and won, instead you think of the Yankees, the great Steelers teams, The Big Red Machine. Nobody remembers the Trailblazzers, Sonics or Bullets winning instead people think of the great Bulls, Celtics and Lakers teams.
In college football there are I believe 122 teams and most teams play only 12 games.....have to have some way to figure out who is the champ. They still don't have it right, but are getting closer. For instance this year, how do you pick between Oklahoma, Michigan State/Iowa winner,(assuming that happens) Notre Dame and Baylor for the final 2 spots after Clemson and Bama. At least 8 teams should be in the playoffs and ideally 16.
But I digress.

Back to NHRA. This is a playoff system where non-playoff cars have too big of an impact. We've seen champions crowned that have had to beat only 1 playoff team(padded their rounds against non playoff teams). It would be like Bama and Clemson facing off, while UTEP and Pittsburgh play at the same time on the field. To be even truer it would actually be Bama vs Utep and Pittsburgh vs Clemson, but out of that we would decide a champ.
That doesn't even get into the issue (real or imagined) about team cars and orders. When people wonder how legit a race is, fair or not, it tarnishes the sport. Dives have long been a part of the sport and I fully understand why, with the countdown we now have two points in the season where it can happen. At the cutoff and in the final race. Before it was only an issue at the very end of the season. Any change to the points system won't effect team orders but the effect of it should be considered and it points bunched up it seems to have become a pretty constant issue now.

I get why they made the move, but judging by the numbers, it has not accomplished the goal. TV and attendance numbers are down and while it is not soley the fault of the countdown, it was the single biggest move they made to attract fans. Sadly it comes across as too reality TV and manufactured drama. People boo in the stands about the countdown or you have the people that say "what is that". I have actually heard people in the pits talking to newbies that this driver has X championships but some were countdowns so they don't count. That is not the type of sales pitch we want going out. The NHRA can PR all they want (and they should) but it's the word of mouth that has more weight and the word isn't all that good lately.

Now if they really want to keep it and add a true playoff feeling, instead of this fubar hybrid, they should go to 8 drivers. Those 8 race on one side of the ladder. They can qualify 1-8 based on ET or they can go into the race based on points, doesn't matter either way. The other side of the ladder would be open to 8 qualifiers who didn't make the countdown. This would still allow for 16 car fields, ideally they toss extra money to whatever non-countdown car does the best over the final 6 races. You would also end up with final round with a David vs Goliath match up that people seem to like. Drivers would have to run the gauntlet each week. While there is never a sure thing, especially in nitro racing would you rather line up in round 1 against Hagan or some part timer.

In many of the classes there are barely 10 regular cars showing up for the season. I would have to go through and double check but it seems there are only 2-3 full time drivers left out in most classes. That would be like letting 26 of the 32 NFL teams into the playoffs. Erica won a championship without making all the races, didn't JR Todd finish #2 while missing a bunch. It makes the regular season less important. The Panthers are 10-0 right now, it would be like them taking the next 3 weeks off just to rest the entire team.

Tell Peter I'm available for hire to make this thing rock again :)
 
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