Jeff Wolf's take on 4 Wide.... (1 Viewer)
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my friends call me Zappy
Nitro Member
Another slam job from someone that was'nt even there.
I think you should SEE it before you judge it.
I still say if Bruton paves two more lanes in time for the Vegas 2 race it'll be a sell out.
I think you should SEE it before you judge it.
I still say if Bruton paves two more lanes in time for the Vegas 2 race it'll be a sell out.
Marchboom
Nitro Member
Another slam job from someone that was'nt even there.
I think you should SEE it before you judge it.
I still say if Bruton paves two more lanes in time for the Vegas 2 race it'll be a sell out.
There are 2 different views of 4-wide. From the in-person spectator and from the watch-it-on-TV spectator. I wasn't at Z-MAX but from watching it on TV, it just didn't cut it for me. And after watching the Houston race, I really like 2-wide racing much better.
my friends call me Zappy
Nitro Member
2-lane or 4 lane, I think we all agree that TV doesn't cut it well. It's just not the same as being there. Much like Baseball or Football.
Crash
Nitro Member
Another slam job from someone that was'nt even there.
I think you should SEE it before you judge it.
I still say if Bruton paves two more lanes in time for the Vegas 2 race it'll be a sell out.
It's pretty simple to me. I don't want to watch it. If it becomes a regular thing, I simply won't watch those races. If it became the norm, I would cease to be a fan. I can live with 1000 feet, I can live with boring top end interviews, I can grudgingly live with the crock of sXXt countdown, but I can't watch this.
Post of the year.
Another slam job from someone that was'nt even there.
I think you should SEE it before you judge it.
I still say if Bruton paves two more lanes in time for the Vegas 2 race it'll be a sell out.
Paul everyone knows this sport wasn't made for TV, however sooner or later Ratings will be in play if we want to keep seeing Drag racing on TV in the Future!
That is the way I feel also. I really didn't like it at all, and had an open mind about it.
Treeshaker
Nitro Member
So, if as reported the TV ratings for the 4 wide event were up 20% they mean what?
The complaints against 4 wide:
1. 4 cars at a time created confusion, couldn't follow the action - but we can follow up to 43 cars on a circle track.
2. Rain will cause chaos - it rained and the event progressed like a normal event.
3. The tree was confusing - only to the drivers who didn't avail themselves of the instructions (1 FC driver sent a rep to the driver's meeting, and then got timed out 1st run because he didn't understand the tree, another driver was taking instructions from a non-driver crewmember and because neither understood the tree he got timed out on one run and terrible lights the rest of the event). The tree was actually pretty simple to figure out.
4. Crew chiefs were confused - I watched from the starting line as crew chiefs signaled they were ready, when the fourth signaled they sent their drivers to stage. I didn't see a problem, and the ones I visited with weren't complaining about it being a problem.
5. Crews were confused on staging lanes - they stopped the cars on the entrance road, when the staging lane you were assigned to opened up they pulled the 4 cars for a run into one lane nose to tail. They pulled all 4 from the lane at one time, each car was assigned a lane in qualifying to run and they were easy to find. In eliminations they put you in the staging lane in order of lane choice, 1st choice was 1st in line, then 2nd, 3rd and last. It seemed as straight forward and as easy as pairing up and getting in order at a two wide event.
6. Last minute lane swaps would be disastrous - it happened and nobody noticed.
7. No TV sponsor recognition - I didn't see much difference in the Houston coverage. I think this needs to be addressed at all events. They did pan on more cars in the staging process at Houston.
8. Negative comments by fans - Rhonda signed several thousand generic handouts with her and John's picture, and we didn't hear one fan with a negative comment about the event. Maybe we were just in an area of the pits that had only positive people. Or maybe because we were upbeat, they were also.
9. Safety - The safety aspects were addressed prior to the event, and I don't think the danger factor for the competitors or spectators went up at all just because 4 cars ran at a time. As usual, the un-informed yell "it looks unsafe to me, so ban it now" without ever giving any facts that will support their position. In reality, there were multiple incidences and they were all taken care of in a timely manner.
This was a first, it had flaws in a lot of areas, but to me it is addressing some issues that face drag racing's future. And instead of sitting on a computer complaining, someone put their money where their mouth is and did something that they thought would help.
none
Nitro Member
Last fall the race was a sellout, so how would you detirmine the success of the next sellout?
Alan
vegasnitro
Nitro Member
That same someone is willing to put MORE money where their mouth is at other facilities he owns.
Ulitmately though, the decision will not be made by us whiny keyboard complainers or TV ratings. Over 90% of PRO has voted to give it the heave-ho. "No 4 Wide for Points" is a refrain still reverberating by those who should know best.
Virgil, you guys in Vegas this weekend? Would love to drop by and say 'hi'.
my friends call me Zappy
Nitro Member
My point is, Rhonda and Virgil were there all weekend, not one negative comment. No one reported people leaving after seeing 4 wide, Yet people still say, "oh the fans didn't like it".
You say Vegas was a sell out last fall. Fine. 2 wide. I'm saying it will still sell out with 4 wide, so where is the fan disapproval?
Dragracer
Nitro Member
According to Competition Plus P.R.O. is meeting prior to the Las Vegas event this weekend.
If you read that article it states that in Section VI of the 2010 NHRA rule book that:
"THE SPORT OF DRAG RACING IS AN ACCELERATION CONTEST BETWEEN TWO VEHICLES RACING FROM A STANDING START OVER A STRAIGHT RACE COURSE. A DRAG RACING EVENT IS MADE UP OF INDIVIDUAL TWO-VEHICLE RACES CALLED ELIMINATIONS, WITH COMPETING MACHINES DIVIDED INTO A VARIETY OF CLASSES".
There are also other references to "two vehicles" in the NHRA Rulebook.
Why NHRA allowed the z-Max event to be 4 lanes in the first place now seems questionable as they specifically say in their own rule book that it's "two vehicles". Of course as all of us that have raced at NHRA events know NHRA can pretty much do whatever they want.
If you read that article it states that in Section VI of the 2010 NHRA rule book that:
"THE SPORT OF DRAG RACING IS AN ACCELERATION CONTEST BETWEEN TWO VEHICLES RACING FROM A STANDING START OVER A STRAIGHT RACE COURSE. A DRAG RACING EVENT IS MADE UP OF INDIVIDUAL TWO-VEHICLE RACES CALLED ELIMINATIONS, WITH COMPETING MACHINES DIVIDED INTO A VARIETY OF CLASSES".
There are also other references to "two vehicles" in the NHRA Rulebook.
Why NHRA allowed the z-Max event to be 4 lanes in the first place now seems questionable as they specifically say in their own rule book that it's "two vehicles". Of course as all of us that have raced at NHRA events know NHRA can pretty much do whatever they want.
Where did you see that?
Marchboom
Nitro Member
Legally, was the Z-MAX race valid? Could anyone claim that the NHRA violated their own rules and, therefore, the race results cannot be counted for, or against, driver's points? If the results from the Z-MAX race affect the chance of a racer from getting into the final 10 racers after Indy, could he claim that he lost out due to the NHRA violating it's rules?
If a driver runs 92% nitro or weighs in light after a run, he does not receive any points as he violated the rules. By running 4-wide, EVERY RACER violated the rules. So, does anyone get any points for this race? If a racer wanted to make a big deal about this, I think he would win the argument.
Just a thought.
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my friends call me Zappy
Nitro Member
Mr. Bennett, in your experience have you ever known P.R.O. to be successful in any issue against NHRA???
Do you really believe that if NHRA holds more 4-wide races with points, that the PRO's will boycott??
Thankyou for your input.
Do you really believe that if NHRA holds more 4-wide races with points, that the PRO's will boycott??
Thankyou for your input.
Marchboom
Nitro Member
What if you threw a party and no one came? If PRO is sincere about their concerns, they will not go to any 4-wide race. Just because someone builds a 4-wide track and the NHRA likes it, that doesn't mean that racers have to participate if they have valid concerns about safety. It's their cars and their driver's safety on the line.
my friends call me Zappy
Nitro Member
My point exactly, they did NOT have to participate.
If and I repete IF[B thay had such strong safety concerns, then why did they race.??
and here I swore I was gonna stop the taking part n four wide talks
-The Nascar "they can watch 43 cars at once argument" how often do they actually follow the entire field. The usually seem to focus on a set number of cars at a time. Also on most laps not much is happening, unlike a drag race where everything happens in seconds
-Race legitimacy...really??? Yes the race counted and will count. If anyone had an issue with that part of the rule book it would have been brought up prior to the race. As it was a called the 4-wide nationals its not like it was a surprise to anyone competing
-I don't blame NHRA for trying this. In person last year it was cool to hear and feel but wasn't that great to watch. Seeing it all from TV this year it wasn't worth watching at all. I can see the newness factor increasing ratings for a the first race of it. I highly doubt that they would maintain that if tried again. I know I wouldn't bother watching another version as I could have seen it better standing on my roof at home with bionoculars then I did from the coverage. If they did it once a year for an exhibition thats fine. Hell I could even live with it if they kept it to one race a year(i just wont watch or go) but with Smith now wanting to increase Vegas we are looking at 4 races minimum. I already can't watch the end of the season anymore I'm gonna be done to 1/2 a season
-Pro Sadly the history shows that despite how much they may not like something they have a hard time trusting each other enough to actually make a real stand. Garlits and the Indy strike seems to be the last known stand and that was over 30 years ago
-Pops if believe the message boards and various polls we've seen over the years at how much the fans hate the countdown. Same polls, message board and even more writers have come out against this but yet because you love it you don't want to see or believe. Love it that's fine but don't deny that you are in the minority on this one
Alan- first time I have seen you in on any of the 4 Wide talks. What did you think of it?
-The Nascar "they can watch 43 cars at once argument" how often do they actually follow the entire field. The usually seem to focus on a set number of cars at a time. Also on most laps not much is happening, unlike a drag race where everything happens in seconds
-Race legitimacy...really??? Yes the race counted and will count. If anyone had an issue with that part of the rule book it would have been brought up prior to the race. As it was a called the 4-wide nationals its not like it was a surprise to anyone competing
-I don't blame NHRA for trying this. In person last year it was cool to hear and feel but wasn't that great to watch. Seeing it all from TV this year it wasn't worth watching at all. I can see the newness factor increasing ratings for a the first race of it. I highly doubt that they would maintain that if tried again. I know I wouldn't bother watching another version as I could have seen it better standing on my roof at home with bionoculars then I did from the coverage. If they did it once a year for an exhibition thats fine. Hell I could even live with it if they kept it to one race a year(i just wont watch or go) but with Smith now wanting to increase Vegas we are looking at 4 races minimum. I already can't watch the end of the season anymore I'm gonna be done to 1/2 a season
-Pro Sadly the history shows that despite how much they may not like something they have a hard time trusting each other enough to actually make a real stand. Garlits and the Indy strike seems to be the last known stand and that was over 30 years ago
-Pops if believe the message boards and various polls we've seen over the years at how much the fans hate the countdown. Same polls, message board and even more writers have come out against this but yet because you love it you don't want to see or believe. Love it that's fine but don't deny that you are in the minority on this one
Alan- first time I have seen you in on any of the 4 Wide talks. What did you think of it?
