Massey 332.18! (4 Viewers)

[Nitrohelper]

..... should be back at 1320 in an improved way....

I think there is a large fan base that would agree with you -
now is the time to reduce the horsepower by about 2000 and go back to 1320 for next season ...
Allow testing again on some Mondays this year to develop the combinations for next season's rules...

 

[Nunz]

I agree Jerry, and I only hope that if they do anything, they choose from the many ways BESIDES lower nitro %. The sound of the cars is really important to the show, IMO.

 

[yoda]

this isn't racing anymore. it's ridiculous.

Its funny... When I was a kid, I raced HO cars at home, and then at some of the slot car tracks in New York. when I stepped up to 1/32 and then 1/24 scale, which was a bigger expense for more speed, it became an obsession to go faster. The first time I got my butt handed to me by a lexan bodied, brass tube chassis slot car, all I wanted to do was buy one to compete.

By the time six months had passed, my new piece was obsolete and I was usually out in the prelims, watching the A and B Mains. Watching the cars zing around the track was initially cool, but after a while, it was pretty impossible to actually WATCH the cars- they were so fast that when you had 6-8 of them on the track, you had to wait for the end of the race to see who the happy kid was holding onto a controller to determine who won. The sport made itself so fast, it only continued to be exciting to the participants behind the controller, and it became too fast to watch for the average spectator, and for some, no longer exciting for the real fan to watch.

1000'. 330mph. 3.7 seconds.

Not what I signed up for as a spectator.

 

[Toejam]

I think there is a large fan base that would agree with you -
now is the time to reduce the horsepower by about 2000 and go back to 1320 for next season ...
Allow testing again on some Mondays this year to develop the combinations for next season's rules...

How would you suggest that, without it costing the Teams in $$$ of New Parts inventory? I have heard take one Mag away plus limit them to a 4 disc clutch!

 

[Rat]

How would you suggest that, without it costing the Teams in $$$ of New Parts inventory? I have heard take one Mag away plus limit them to a 4 disc clutch!

My book when it is released has some great ideas from some really smart people, but I can't release that yet as my contract would then eat me alive. Anyway, the biggest increase would more than likely be the cost of running an extra 320 feet. Of course teams loved the switch because 320 feet less of running saved a few pennies on fuel and maybe even extended some part life.

 

[rckymtn3]

1) I'm new to this board, but not new to the sport

2) you regulate performance by tire size...pretty simple...smaller foot print, less horsepower can be applied....any other way (smaller blower, less clutch plates etc etc) will always be figured out, and the engineers and crew chiefs will ALWAYS find a little more, a little more) Tire size can't be fussed with....spec tire, you control performances.

3) I never warmed to Massey...anyone that's says "maybe I'll finally win it" when asked about his NHRA Championship is a chump....finally? seriously? Frank Bradley could have said it, Dick LaHaie could have said it (though he never did, even when he finally did)....that, I think I would have commiserated with, but someone that did some time in IHRA, then some in NHRA saying "finally" like it's been exasperating....well...I am machining a "Dork" award....

 

[Dave]

Good idea.. I can't wait for the 10.5" tire craze to take over top fuel!

 

[HEMI6point1]

3) I never warmed to Massey...anyone that's says "maybe I'll finally win it" when asked about his NHRA Championship is a chump....finally? seriously? Frank Bradley could have said it, Dick LaHaie could have said it (though he never did, even when he finally did)....that, I think I would have commiserated with, but someone that did some time in IHRA, then some in NHRA saying "finally" like it's been exasperating....well...I am machining a "Dork" award....

What Top Fuel car have you driven?

 

[.]

LOL Someone posted this on yt:

[vbtube]oTtDByvMuWE[/vbtube]

Congrats to Todd Okuhara, Phil Shuler, the crew, Spencer and DSR!

 

[Nitrohelper]

...costing the Teams in $$$ ...take one Mag away plus limit them to a 4 disc clutch!

One mag & reducing the blower overdrive would be a quick change... Fuel pump gears are easy too...

Ultimately in a few of years, maybe a 400+ ci. engine...the cranks are now replaced in 8-10 runs , the pistons would be the same , rods are replaced daily, plus the excess inventory can go to the track pullers...

The parts cost argument is a "Red Herring" because of the current replacement rate of parts, they need a second truck to haul them now... The different pieces would cost the same if ordered in advance - pistons ,rods ,crankshafts , blower pulleys , magnetos all cost the same... If you go to one mag the replacement costs are half, including half the plugs...

If you slow the blowers to under 20% they wouldn't have to be stripped as often... Blower technology is one of the biggest improvements in recent years that would be the thing to change first... A four disc clutch would reduce rear main bearing problems and eliminate some replacement parts...

Best is, if they make a big reduction, the tracks can be 1320 again ,plus tire chunking past the 1000' would be eliminated... Tires are now $1600/pair, getting more than two runs would also reduce costs...

The knowledge to reduce speeds is available , it's the will of the big teams to spend for new data acquisition that isn't forth coming... Tune-ups are sacred right now...

 

[Toejam]

One mag & reducing the blower overdrive would be a quick change... Fuel pump gears are easy too...

Ultimately in a few of years, maybe a 400+ ci. engine...the cranks are now replaced in 8-10 runs , the pistons would be the same , rods are replaced daily, plus the excess inventory can go to the track pullers...

The parts cost argument is a "Red Herring" because of the current replacement rate of parts, they need a second truck to haul them now... The different pieces would cost the same if ordered in advance - pistons ,rods ,crankshafts , blower pulleys , magnetos all cost the same... If you go to one mag the replacement costs are half, including half the plugs...

If you slow the blowers to under 20% they wouldn't have to be stripped as often... Blower technology is one of the biggest improvements in recent years that would be the thing to change first... A four disc clutch would reduce rear main bearing problems and eliminate some replacement parts...

Best is, if they make a big reduction, the tracks can be 1320 again ,plus tire chunking past the 1000' would be eliminated... Tires are now $1600/pair, getting more than two runs would also reduce costs...

The knowledge to reduce speeds is available , it's the will of the big teams to spend for new data acquisition that isn't forth coming... Tune-ups are sacred right now...

When did they go to 4 disc clutches? Mid 80's? If you took one Mag away wouldnt you have to reduce Fuel and Blower to compensate??

 

[Nitrohelper]

..... Mid 80's.... ...reduce Fuel and Blower to compensate.....

Yes and yes on fuel volume -not percentage ...
The older guys could get out the note books from 1986-87, the younger guys would have to have help...
The Coil - Richards- Armstrong consulting services would have immediate work ...
Mark Oswald & Jimmy Prock could be ready...

 

[FC138fan]

Don't they have a rev limiter, and limits on the gearing? If so, then there is a speed limit. Does anybody know what the speed limit is? Is it 340?

 

[Rat]

Yes and yes on fuel volume -not percentage ...
The older guys could get out the note books from 1986-87, the younger guys would have to have help...
The Coil - Richards- Armstrong consulting services would have immediate work ...
Mark Oswald & Jimmy Prock could be ready...

I like this idea

 

[rckymtn3]

What Top Fuel car have you driven?

you're mistaken, and curmudgeony...I never said I drove a Top Fueler....do you enter most arguments with bravado and armed with the 'ole I'm rubber you're glue ammo? I take it from your response, you totally understand his exasperation at driving for a couple of seasons and not having a title yet?

real men apparently do eat quiche, or at least wear it like a hat, but off to the side a little for more flair.

 

[Nitrohelper]

.... rev limiter.... 340....

Goodyear wants under 330... The rev-limiter can be "tricked" ...

 

[Toejam]

Yes and yes on fuel volume -not percentage ...
The older guys could get out the note books from 1986-87, the younger guys would have to have help...
The Coil - Richards- Armstrong consulting services would have immediate work ...
Mark Oswald & Jimmy Prock could be ready...

What % do the Nostalgia cars run???

 

[none]

Everyone I have spoken to who has an idea about the "Best" way to slow them down has their idea based on what they would do to overcome the restriction. If you think you have a good 20% over combination then you want an overdrive rule. If you have a tune up that works at less than 90 GPM then you want a fuel pump restriction. I really don't know anyone who wants to go to 1 Mag. They all say that the result would be WAY to much lead. Two mags solved many problems apart from making more power and I don't believe that reviving all those problems is in anyones best interest. I'm sure someone thinks differently, but I haven't talked to him.

The two most interesting things I have heard are from two guys who have been around a while, but certainly don't share ideas, or exchange Christmas Cards. One is Lee Beard who said that he has no ideas on how to slow them down. He has spent his life trying to make them faster and has never wasted any time and effort thinking about going slower. He once told me that whatever restriction he is given, he goes right to work trying to overcome it.

The other is Alan Johnson who said, if you have more traction than power you tear stuff up because you have to make every bit of power and lean on your stuff very hard. But if you have more power than traction you have to use finesse. You automatically ease up on the tune up which is easier on parts to keep the car hooked up.

If it were up to me, I would reduce the availible traction. I would go with a smaller wing, or less track spray, or even a smaller tire. Minimal expense as far as buying new parts goes. And the tuners would have to adjust which they are already doing. Chicago at night doesn't have near the same availible traction as Topeka or Englishtown in the summer and the tuners adjust accordingly.

As always this is strictly MY OPINION, I'm not speaking for NHRA or anyone else.

Alan

 

[Nitrohelper]

What % do the Nostalgia cars run...

Most are 85 to 100% depending on the compression and blower overdrive...

 

[mike]

If it were up to me, I would reduce the availible traction. I would go with a smaller wing, or less track spray, or even a smaller tire. Minimal expense as far as buying new parts goes. And the tuners would have to adjust which they are already doing. Chicago at night doesn't have near the same availible traction as Topeka or Englishtown in the summer and the tuners adjust accordingly.

As always this is strictly MY OPINION, I'm not speaking for NHRA or anyone else.

Alan

that seems to make more sense that a lot of other stuff...AND less track spray/track prep might help some with the extended down time between classes too...