Some thoughts on the reasons for existing NHRA rules... (1 Viewer)

[SundayNiagara]

Ken said: "The one thing that seems to me to be the problem with NHRA use is, they still use a spring to close the valve, air only opens it."

Ken, I have NO IDEA what you're talking about. The last time I looked at a hemi in an alcohol dragster, the ROCKER arrn (pushrod actuated, from the lifter, via the camshaft) opened the valve.

Do you know something I don't?

Bill

Same, but different.

 

[Fireball]

Bill,

I believe that I and others have answered your questions, that fact that you don't agree doesn't mean that you are right.

Drag boats, tractor pullers and Pro-Mods use the same HEMI, some of the tractor guys have 5 of them. So there is a market outside of NHRA.

You have now gone from "They could design it in their sleep" to "Why would they spend the money" Either it's that easy, or it's a big headache. Which is it?

After that you go into the back helicopter theorys and I'm done with the discussion.

It was fun while it lasted,
Alan

Bill Dedman = Franklin Ratliff?

 

[sdwarf36]

From what I remember reading, the pneumatic spring only came in to use once rpm's made coils springs obsolete. I remember hearing 18k was the number. Now in F1 cars* + bikes, the lift amounts and valve size (and weight) are tiny. Trying to lift a 2.5" valve over an inch is a whole different game.
*The last gen cars were 'limited' to 18k-20k was possible. The newer cars turn much slower-I'm not even sure they still use air springs.

 

[Diesel Funnycar]

I know I'm kinda like a whore sitting in church by getting into this conversation , but I think turbos & nitro could be made to work together without too much trouble .. We play in the diesel racing / pulling world quite a bit & the exhaust temps we sometimes see melt egt sensors with ease .. We have a fix for that . We also see boost hitting over 275 lbs with high compression ratios & the farmers of the Midwest have got that all figured out ... Couple that with the slow burning / high btu nature of diesel & they really aren't that far off .

 

[none]

Hey John,
First I think your car is AWESOME! When will I see it again?
Second, what is the exhaust pressure on the diesel? With the fuel still in burn and expansion mode coming out of the pipes on a Fuel motor, I wouldn't think you could keep a turbo on it. I could certainly be wrong, but I think the pressure would be to high to contain. Thoughts?
Alan

 

[PJ]

Didn't Garlits play around with a mono-strut car too?

 

[none]

Didn't Garlits play around with a mono-strut car too?

Yes. IIRC, in the early 2000's NHRA allowed him to run it on an experimental basis.

 

[Toejam]

When the big dogs were running 2:90 gears and lunching rear ends on the starting line. NHRA stepped in and helped the racers help themselves by requiring 3:20. End of problem. ​

I heard the scare of 300 MPH is what caused NHRA to slow them down! Phil Burgess told me in 1992 that when Gary Ormsby went 296 at Topeka in 1990, NHRA got pressure from their Insurance carrier over the safety of 300 MPH Race cars. They obviously have since relented. But I never heard it was over Rear-ends coming apart...all the A/Fuel cars are running 2.90 gears, they don't seem to be having problems.

 

[flapjack]

But I never heard it was over Rear-ends coming apart...all the A/Fuel cars are running 2.90 gears, they don't seem to be having problems.

Virgil had mentioned that they have since increased the size of the rear ends, which probably why we don't see failures now.

 

[Nick Name]

Alan,



I think a company named "Del Webb" makes all te pneumatic springs for F-1. That is old information, though, and may not be true, anymore. I thought that if a pneumatic spring was ever deemed viable for the Alcohol motors in NHRA, the Del Webb's engineering department would have a huge "head-start" on developing it, because they have been making F-1 springs for many years, now.
Bill

I believe Del Webb built retirement communities. Del West does valve train stuff

 

[Nick Name]

Bill Dedman = Franklin Ratliff?

What ever happened to that guy?

 

[None]

The guy who drove it in testing (Hot Rod Fuller) almost crashed it. He felt like the whale tail made the car unsafe when it got out of the groove. He told the owner (David Powers) that he would quit before he drove it again. To my knowledge it hasn't been on the track since. I was told at one time but can't say for sure that the car and the whale tail live in Australia now. Maybe someone can confirm this?
Alan

NHRA banned the Kloeber mono strut car when the owner of the big red car cried if would be an unfair advantage. Powers got it, greased the NHRA wheels, changed some of the designs, Hot Rod didn't like it, it went back on the shelf, and Powers disappeared in the middle of the night. Was it banned because of an advantage or a payback for all the times the President of Pro rolled over in favor of the NHRA over the racers? Powers and Hot Rod vs. Kloeber and Millican. I think the results might come out a lot different.

 

[Bill]

I believe Del Webb built retirement communities. Del West does valve train stuff

Thanks much for the correction, Jay. I apologize for the mix-up.

Bill

 

[none]

John,
NHRA didn't ban it, it was never submitted for approval to my knowledge. There is a lot of stuff that is tested, deemed not workable and never submitted for approval. Like the Carbon clutch.
Alan

 

[Nunz]

How about this rule: The elimination of A/FC from the rulebook years ago. Not sure why it happened, because I think it was eliminated even before injected fuel dragsters became competitive in TAD. Now, you might say that NHRA doesn't need the parity headache. But, after years and years of work at it, the BADs and A/FDs are pretty darn close, with each combo doing better than the other under certain conditions. I think NHRA could get a rule package for an injected nitro FC that would be close right off the bat, and could tweak it as needed, like in TAD. How many think having injected Nitro FCs would be a cool addition to the Alky FC class? I do! I remember as a kid they were part of the landscape, with several circuits made up of these cars. And of course, Ken Veney had a badass Vega in Pro Comp before going blown alky. NHRA really markets Nitro, maybe now is the time to bring back another fuel class.

 

[None]

John,
NHRA didn't ban it, it was never submitted for approval to my knowledge. There is a lot of stuff that is tested, deemed not workable and never submitted for approval. Like the Carbon clutch.
Alan

Are you speaking for the NHRA on this issue? No use testing when you jump through all their hoops and they come back and tell you that you can't use it after all the money that was spent on it.

 

[none]

Are you speaking for the NHRA on this issue? No use testing when you jump through all their hoops and they come back and tell you that you can't use it after all the money that was spent on it.

No, I'm not speaking for the NHRA, but there have been many things tested and then submitted for approval. Scroll up and read my post about Jim Head and the carbon clutch. I was there when the tested it, the hope was to prove it was viable and then submit it for approval.
Alan

 

[yoda]

Me thinks if someone wants to try new things such as suggested here, the NHRA is not a good starting point. Better to go to the SCTA and take it to El Marage or Bonneville.

Just my worthless 0.02 cents.

And because we still have the little car with 1 cylinder, I'm now looking at safety rules to run SCTA for a record... Racing for TRUE hot rodders...

 

[yoda]

What ever happened to that guy?

Facebook gives him a place to examine his theories... Not as madcap as we though 15 years ago...

 

[yoda]

The guy who drove it in testing (Hot Rod Fuller) almost crashed it. He felt like the whale tail made the car unsafe when it got out of the groove. He told the owner (David Powers) that he would quit before he drove it again. To my knowledge it hasn't been on the track since. I was told at one time but can't say for sure that the car and the whale tail live in Australia now. Maybe someone can confirm this?
Alan

You know for a fact that it lives in my garage