Nitrogate......The Don answers! (1 Viewer)

[Draw 3D]

I got out my copy of the 2008 rulebook and read page 64 as referenced in the NHRA release.

First let me explain that I was in the aerospace industry for some +20 years and I had to read and write rules, specs and regulations on a daily if not hourly occurrence.

I normally don't like the way NHRA rules are written, too many areas of uncertainties, but in this case, it seemed quite clear to me.

My interpretation is that only NHRA national event approved fuels can be brought in and/or stored by racers including transporters and pit areas. The rules are written specifically for cars and teams, not tracks.

As far as I know, Pro Nitro is not approved for national event use. If that is wrong then NHRA is wrong, else, DSR is wrong.

If this has happened in the past with no notification by NHRA to the violator, then that is a separate issue and it needs to be addressed.

I wonder if there had been any previous informal "discussions" about this matter with those involved and this fine made it "official"?

 

[.]

As far as I know, Pro Nitro is not approved for national event use. If that is wrong then NHRA is wrong, else, DSR is wrong.

They weren't using it for a national event, it was on site for Monday testing. And, once again, Pro Nitro is an NHRA approved fuel supplier. Don is right, NHRA is wrong.

 

[FABMAN]

Quote from Jeff Burke @ dragracingonline.com

"So now, every possible bad scenario, factual or not, regarding storing, buying, and selling nitromethane is all over the internet. No matter what precautions the current suppliers and the NHRA and IHRA have taken to comply with the regulations, the transport, use and sales of the golden juice is a suddenly a big deal. Rumors abound about even more restrictive rules regarding the sales and transport of nitro for racing purposes
In my opinion, what really needs to happen here is that we all – and that means the press, the sanctioning bodies, chat room and bulletin board wonks and especially those that import and sell the stuff -- need to just SHUT UP about nitro. Those that sell it should quit fighting and make peace among themselves. The NHRA and the IHRA should quit worrying about the relatively small amount of money they get for awarding a nitro monopoly and instead do everything they can to ensure there is an affordable and plentiful supply.
And one last thing: the Homeland Security people have a lot bigger worries than what goes on in drag racing. I’ll bet most of the folks in charge don’t even know or care about it.
As always, it’s just my view on the subject."

[email protected]


I don't usually/normally agree with him but in this case he seems to be the only voice of reason in a flood of rumors, misrepresentations, threats and one sided responses. All of the parties not involved who don't have all the facts should shut up and let this get worked out quietly before we force the government, racers, sanctioning bodies and suppliers to take actions that will just hurt drag racing.

John, you need to send this post directly to Tom and Graham, they're the ones that started this mess in front of millions of people. All Don S. has been doing these past few years is to keep price down and extra profits out of someone's pocket.

 

[FABMAN]

I got out my copy of the 2008 rulebook and read page 64 as referenced in the NHRA release.

First let me explain that I was in the aerospace industry for some +20 years and I had to read and write rules, specs and regulations on a daily if not hourly occurrence.

I normally don't like the way NHRA rules are written, too many areas of uncertainties, but in this case, it seemed quite clear to me.

My interpretation is that only NHRA national event approved fuels can be brought in and/or stored by racers including transporters and pit areas. The rules are written specifically for cars and teams, not tracks.

As far as I know, Pro Nitro is not approved for national event use. If that is wrong then NHRA is wrong, else, DSR is wrong.

If this has happened in the past with no notification by NHRA to the violator, then that is a separate issue and it needs to be addressed.

I wonder if there had been any previous informal "discussions" about this matter with those involved and this fine made it "official"?

Paul, i just read the rule book as well and the word *suppliers* means more than one. Don's attorney sent NHRA a letter and i think it states all the issues very well.

 

[Nitrohaulic]

Since NHRA was SO QUICK to announce a $100,000 fine, possibly being wrong in doing so, I hope the scenario that follows is something like Don's attorney(s) sitting down with NHRA's attorneys and describing to them a lawsuit that COULD be filed for the damage to his reputation, hopefully one in which he would seek MORE than what they were fining him and, offer to settle for less than that but, an amount that's still more than his fine.

I think they need to be financially bitten hard by this. Hard enough to make them sit down and make sure they're right before they try to pull anything like it again. An upper tier head rolling would make a nice PR statement as well, since they seem to be so concerned about how they appear to the public.

 

[clwill]

Interesting that the rule book (on page 64) states that "NHRA will designate accepted suppliers", and that the NHRA web site has an Accepted Fuel List link on it. But that link opens a document that lists only racing gasolines, not alcohol or nitro. Seems like a simple thing for NHRA to have it be truly an accepted FUEL list, not just gasoline, and list the whole range of fuels used in competition and the accepted suppliers. Then this whole mess would be moot.

 

[PJ]

You know, I'm thinking what drag racing needs is to restructure to become more like the National Basketball Association, or The National Football League. They would appoint a strong commissioner and all the Pro team owners would have a vote at any meetings. NHRA could still take care of booking the races at the member tracks, and provide the rule book for competition. I think it's obvious to most people on this forum that drag racing, NHRA style, is on a possible self-destructive course. And it seems to become more and more obvious every season, and almost every event.

I'm not sure that would work. You have the Force's and Don's out there owning many teams. Do they only get one vote as an owner or a vote for each car? Then you have the single car teams. If the John, Don or Kenny have more than one vote then they would have more power. How about the guy who doesn't make it out to every event. Should their vote count as much as the guys who make every race? In the NBA or NFL each owner can only have 1 team and they all must play the same amount of games.
In order to work out all the voting bigs we'd end up with the electoral college of drag racing

 

[clwill]

I'm not sure that would work. <snip>

Actually it doesn't have to be that complicated. Most corporations have a fairly simple structure: a board of directors that hires and fires the senior executive, who is responsible for hiring and firing the balance of the staff. NHRA is a 501c structure (a c6 or c7, I believe) and has a similar organization.

The key difference is in how the board is chosen. In corporations, shareholders vote in the board. I am not sure how NHRA's board is chosen, but I assume the shareholders voted them in, but I don't know who the shareholders are. I assume Wally was the primary holder, and assume Dallas, Compton, etc. are significant shareholders. But who has the most, or the rest?

One thing I do know is that I, a member, don't have a vote. I also know licensed drivers don't have voting rights.

But, perhaps that's a way to reform the organization: to endow the members or maybe licensed drivers with voting rights. Or perhaps to give voting rights for participation in national events -- one voting share for each entry into a national event. That way, over time, people like Force who have participated in hundreds would have more votes than someone who is new and has participated in just a few.

I'm just thinking out loud, but it seems to me that, if you want to reform the organization, you change the board. The question is how do you effect that change? In most corporations, you just buy the shares, but with the NHRA there is no open market for the shares. Hmmm...

 

[Chi-Town Brown]

In order to work out all the voting bigs we'd end up with the electoral college of drag racing

And we all know how well that works for our US Government


OOOPPSSSS I don't want to start any talk about politics.

Sorry!!! I'll go back were I belong


Did someone see a ride or money stealing thread I belong in around here?

 

[Rumblebones]

Where in the rule book does it say that $100,000 is the penalty for this infraction?

 

[The Counterfeiter]

Where in the rule book does it say that $100,000 is the penalty for this infraction?

That kind of stuff would be found in the Policy Manual - too bad none of us will ever get a look at it! -

 

[Alan]

That kind of stuff would be found in the Policy Manual - too bad none of us will ever get a look at it! -

Ohhhh...the official NHRA MBSUAWGA manual....

(Make Bull S**t Up As We Go Along)

 

[Draw 3D]

They weren't using it for a national event, it was on site for Monday testing. And, once again, Pro Nitro is an NHRA approved fuel supplier. Don is right, NHRA is wrong.

Brent, that's the point, Pro Nitro is not legal for NHRA national event, only VP is, and, a race team cannot have non-legal nitro at an NHRA national event.

Paul, i just read the rule book as well and the word *suppliers* means more than one. Don's attorney sent NHRA a letter and i think it states all the issues very well.

Being a plural doesn't mean anything, Pro Nitro is not approved for NHRA national event, even DSR went out of his way on ESPN to say they were not using that nitro because IT IS NOT LEGAL!

 

[XPilot]

You have to wonder why the NHRA choose to immediately bring this subject into the public eye? I have my own ideas about their reasoning.

The other question.. How did the NHRA determine the amount to fine DSR? Would they fine an independent operation the same amount?

Something is very fishy here, and the smell is coming from Glendora.

 

[.]

Brent, that's the point, Pro Nitro is not legal for NHRA national event, only VP is, and, a race team cannot have non-legal nitro at an NHRA national event.

They can't use it. Big difference. And wasn't this fuel that had previously been supplied by Pro Nitro to VP?

 

[Draw 3D]

They can't use it. Big difference. And wasn't this fuel that had previously been supplied by Pro Nitro to VP?

No, it can't be brought in, read the rulebook.

 

[TJ]

The NHRA were tipped off from other teams....And how many other teams are defending them on this situation? Think about it...when you are the best team in T/F you had better assume everyone will be taking shots @ you @ any level..

 

[FABMAN]

No, it can't be brought in, read the rulebook.

Paul, in the rule book it says*NHRA will designate accepted suppliers of nitromethane that may be brought on site and/or used on site at NHRA National events and NHRA Divisional events.* According to records several years ago NHRA made an amendment to the rule declaring two suppliers and one of them is fuel that was in DSR's trailer.

 

[Draw 3D]

Paul, in the rule book it says*NHRA will designate accepted suppliers of nitromethane that may be brought on site and/or used on site at NHRA National events and NHRA Divisional events.* According to records several years ago NHRA made an amendment to the rule declaring two suppliers and one of them is fuel that was in DSR's trailer.

I guess you don't believe me and that's fine, ask DSR if they can use Pro Nitro in a national event. That will tell you if it's legal or not.

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

. . . I think they need to be financially bitten hard by this. Hard enough to make them sit down and make sure they're right before they try to pull anything like it again. An upper tier head rolling would make a nice PR statement as well, since they seem to be so concerned about how they appear to the public.

Normally, I'd agree but the pro stock truck debacle was beyond substantial and no heads rolled then. Maybe it's because the heads are permanently affixed to the organization. I believe it would be impossible to change these guards despite their actions. Ask the guy sitting in his living room when one of them rolled through?