Gatornats PSM Performance Triggered NHRA Parity Review (1 Viewer)

[Doolie]

A couple of things, where did the $800,000.00 figure come from? I never heard that number until I saw it in this thread and I'm curious about who is reporting that number.

Second, you have all heard George's side of the story, V&H isn's talking. That doesn't make what George says the gospel. Just remember that there are always at least two sides to every story, and the V&H story is quite different from what you have heard. I'm not saying that George isn't telling the truth as he sees it, I'm just saying that there is another side to the story.

The manufacturer has to be the one to ask for a change. Allen Johnson can't ask NHRA to approve a new model HEMI. Chrysler has to do that. Harley asked for a change and it was granted, Buell doesn't exist anymore, and that's not V&H's fault.

Alan

I told myself I was going to stay out of this, I wish I would have listened. Here’s what I’m seeing.

There was 1 race in 2012 and the Harley’s dominated.

The race ended on Monday 2400 miles from NHRA headquarters.

Most of the staff got back late Monday or sometime Tuesday.

They decided that the bikes needed a closer look and issued a statement to that fact.

They have the luxury of not having to make a quick decision as the motorcycles don’t run again until Houston.

They have scheduled a meeting to discuss the possible options. That meeting hasn’t taken place yet.

Shouldn’t we at least wait and see what they have to say?


Two more things, I would like someone to point out where I said that there was parity in the class and nothing needs to be done.

And I’m still waiting to hear where the $800,000.00 number came from.

Alan

Reading is FUNDAMENTAL>>>>
You know your paycheck is made possible by the NHRA. Do you have any clue as to the history of the organization? Do you have a clue as to their record on rule making, treating racers like serfs and so much more abusive stuff.
I was not too tough for you to see about the 800 grand, it is on this site. Methinks you don't want to know that your esteemed employer has feet of clay.

 

[twostep]

Shouldn’t we at least wait and see what they have to say?

Two more things, I would like someone to point out where I said that there was parity in the class and nothing needs to be done.

And I’m still waiting to hear where the $800,000.00 number came from.

Yes, we should.

You never said that.

I've heard $750K and $800K, and once I used the latter figure, as an example, in one of my posts. If I'm guilty of perpetuating something that's not accurate, I apologize. I really don't care; as I said earlier it doesn't matter if NHRA is being paid ten million dollars, or nothing at all.

In one of your other posts, you stated "Harley requested and NHRA granted". To me, that means Harley 'requested' they be allowed to compete with Harley VRods, using 4 valve DOHC engines, and that the combination be exclusive to Vance and Hines.

I don't give a rat's ass if NHRA adds 150 pounds to those motorcycles. That's not the problem, nor is it a longterm solution. The right thing to do is allow others to compete with the same combination. If another team is unable to duplicate V&H horsepower given equal opportunity, then oh well, they're going to get outrun. But to give one team an exclusive advantage of such magnitude will kill the class before the season's out, if it keeps up. Mark my words.

 

[theraceman]

but I guess I'd just as soon see the bikes get replaced by the Pro Mods in the big show anyway<shrug>

Why would PSM have to drop to add Pro Mod? Why throw your 2 cents in on a PSM thread when you don't like them...

PSM is my favorite class - the only class where i watch every run when reviewing on the TIVO. Pro Stock a close 2nd, and FC / TF I watch on fast forward.

I have never figured out why people ***** about classes they don't like. I think peeps that are REAL drag racing fans can appreciate ALL classes that pull up to the tree...

If you want PM, then advocate for it, but to talk like a class has to be dropped for it makes NO SENSE.

 

[my friends call me Zappy]

Put all of them in Sportsman Motorcycle. Then they could run on a handicap dial your own E.T.

Ditto that - parity solved

 

[silverback]

Why would PSM have to drop to add Pro Mod? Why throw your 2 cents in on a PSM thread when you don't like them...

PSM is my favorite class - the only class where i watch every run when reviewing on the TIVO. Pro Stock a close 2nd, and FC / TF I watch on fast forward.

I have never figured out why people ***** about classes they don't like. I think peeps that are REAL drag racing fans can appreciate ALL classes that pull up to the tree...

If you want PM, then advocate for it, but to talk like a class has to be dropped for it makes NO SENSE.

I agree 100% Donnie. There are some classes out there i can care less about but they belong there for the people that do like them and pay money to see them. If you don't like a class don't watch them, go get a hot dog or something. At least have a little respect for the people that like a class you don't.

 

[none]

OK you guys are right. You have all "Heard" 800, 850 K so that must be a fact. Still haven't been shown proof. But you don't want proof, because you "Heard" it you know it's true.

I quit! you can have the thread and the PSM debate. Please carry on.....

Alan

 

[twostep]

OK you guys are right. You have all "Heard" 800, 850 K so that must be a fact. Still haven't been shown proof. But you don't want proof, because you "Heard" it you know it's true.

You did read my post in regards to the number, correct? I'll repeat, in case I wasn't clear:

I wouldn't have a clue what the number is; I repeated the $800K number one time to emphasize an example I was making, and I retracted/apologized for it. So don't quit the thread based on my BS...

 

[sparky]

Alan , I have to call ya out on this one !
I hear ya on two sides to every story thing, but the truth of the matter is why cant anybody else run a 4 valve ohc motor besides V+H's this is what is not fair ! If Matt Smith or Goerge Bryce or hell even Dean Skuza { everybody should like how I snuck him in there} Should be able to spend the money and buy the same components, once owned, they can port polish open whatever is within the rules ! But they should be able to by or build the same apples ! Its cheating the average fan that doesnt know any better ! This will not better the sport , if anything it gives black eyes !

 

[SundayNiagara]

OK you guys are right. You have all "Heard" 800, 850 K so that must be a fact. Still haven't been shown proof. But you don't want proof, because you "Heard" it you know it's true.

I quit! you can have the thread and the PSM debate. Please carry on.....

Alan

Don't let the door hit ya......................................

 

[TooTall999]

OK you guys are right. You have all "Heard" 800, 850 K so that must be a fact. Still haven't been shown proof. But you don't want proof, because you "Heard" it you know it's true.

I quit! you can have the thread and the PSM debate. Please carry on.....

Alan

The actual number is irrelevant, the facts are HD is the "official" motorcycle of the NHRA and they pay a substantial amount to be such. Now within the Pro Stock Motorcycle class, there is one team that is allowed exclusive access to V-rod parts. They are the only team allowed to run this V-rod, overhead cam, four valve per cylinder engine. They are the only team that has access to V-rod bodywork. Ironically they are also sponsored by Harley Davidson. Something stinks here, and Alan I know you're a company man, but you have to admit something is just not right with this situation.

 

[Rajunz]

So you don't believe that there's two sides to the story?

Alan

It's pretty straight forward Alan! George's side of the story is that he wants to build an HD, and cannot build one at any cost. Is there another side to this story, or is this actually a fact?

George's side of the story is that he HAD to make the Buell available to everyone else in order to build that. Is there another side to this story, or is this actually a fact?

Why would PSM have to drop to add Pro Mod? Why throw your 2 cents in on a PSM thread when you don't like them...

PSM is my favorite class - the only class where i watch every run when reviewing on the TIVO. Pro Stock a close 2nd, and FC / TF I watch on fast forward.

I have never figured out why people ***** about classes they don't like. I think peeps that are REAL drag racing fans can appreciate ALL classes that pull up to the tree...

If you want PM, then advocate for it, but to talk like a class has to be dropped for it makes NO SENSE.

Right on Donnie!

 

[mike]

nevermind

 

[FC138fan]

Something stinks here, and Alan I know you're a company man, but you have to admit something is just not right with this situation.

I've spend about 3 mins reading this PSB issue, and Im not passionate about it in the least... but doesn't the title of this thread prove that NHRA recognizes theres a problem? Therefore theres no reason to get all worked up about it because the solution to the problem is still in the works. Wait till after the solution comes down - then complain about it.

Or continue to do whatever because the thread is entertaining.

 

[TooTall999]

I've spend about 3 mins reading this PSB issue, and Im not passionate about it in the least... but doesn't the title of this thread prove that NHRA recognizes theres a problem? Therefore theres no reason to get all worked up about it because the solution to the problem is still in the works. Wait till after the solution comes down - then complain about it.

Or continue to do whatever because the thread is entertaining.

It's not just a parity issue, read or listen to what George Bryce is saying and why he can't build a V-rod.

 

[Ron]

Yes Alan, but is there any one team in the other professional classes that has an exclusive to an engine design? Like I said in my earler post, it would be like Mopar only allowing Alan Johnson access to the pro stock hemi engine. No other team has access to the V-rod style pro stock motorcycle engine. They can either run the v-twin "Buell" or the Suzuki engine. In classes where head and manifold modifications are allowed, most of the top teams are running exclusive heads or manifolds, as in they start with a billet and a basic design and machine their own versions.

Does John Force have an engine no one else can get? Maybe Tasca but nobody else gets the "Boss" engine.

 

[.]

Does John Force have an engine no one else can get? Maybe Tasca but nobody else gets the "Boss" engine.

The Ford 500 isn't a different configuration from what everybody else runs, it's a Hemi block with some reinforcing, basically. If they were running a specially designed Cosworth-Ford 4 valve engine and everybody else was stuck running a 2 valve Hemi, then you'd have a valid comparison to what's taking place in PSM.

 

[Doolie]

You did read my post in regards to the number, correct? I'll repeat, in case I wasn't clear:

I wouldn't have a clue what the number is; I repeated the $800K number one time to emphasize an example I was making, and I retracted/apologized for it. So don't quit the thread based on my BS...

Alan, Alan, don't worry, they will pay you.

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

Moving weight around on either side to create the parity is pointless.

The bottom line is this; as long as there is only one team allowed to run a given combination, the true performance potential will never be known, and that goes for any class. As I see it, that's where V&H has the strangle hold on this whole situation. They and only they know where they're at performance wise. That's a great place to be for them and you can bet your a$$ that's a major reason why they're being quiet. Don't think for a minute they don't know that if another top-caliber team, i.e., George Bryce, were allowed to thrash this combination that the true performance abilities would be exposed and the reservoir they pull from would dry up literally overnight. And God only knows how deep that reservoir currently is.

This is all on the sanctioning body, period, and it's a shame they've allowed it to get to this point.

Sean D

 

[willy]

Don't let the door hit ya......................................

Don't be a butt-wipe Mark.

 

[force fan]

I dont blame V+H for asking for 4v OHC-the stock bike has it. Its just inconcievable that NHRA tech let them have it-AT THE SAME DISPLACEMENT as a 2 valve pushrod motor. Considering they had a competitive 2v pushrod motor already and weren't at a loss to the other bikes.
NHRA should have never let that fly... That motor should have be made to 120 cubic inches and thats it...
Allen, are u serious right now in taking up 4 them.... You are not looking at the big picture here that NO ONE CAN BUY A HD.... Make them go back to there 2 valve push rod motors and if they can out run everyone then then i will be inpressed... All i have ever hear was Terry and Byron built this class 20-30 years ago.. Well now they are killing it... If thats what they want just tell us and we will quit and save our money... It sucks 2 know that you spend 5 to 15 k a race to run for 3rd or 4th place... Which is 2k... NHRA i hope u see how everyone doesnt even know the whole story and yall can fix this and explain this to the whole nhra fan base.. Make them take at least 20 cubic inches away will be a good start or just run the motors they had in 2008 and then they can be just like the buells... Matt Smith

And I would bet anything that if they did go back to the 2 valve push rods they would not dominate.