Will Top Dragster and Sportsman ever run at Natl. events? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Toejam
- Start date
I'm inclined to agree they are more entertaining spectating-wise. But I'm sure a TON of S/C-S/G drivers would put up a major fuss!
HEMI6point1
Nitro Member
'Cause they just loooove using that throttle stop. 
Joker
Nitro Member
Most dragsters who run in super comp can easily run 7.70's. Most SC and even SG cars have 565's or bigger in them. The problem will be with all the vette roadsters in SG. Not sure what you would do with them. I dont believe you can run that in TS. But I agree that TD and TS are kick ass classes. But they will have to cancel the qualifying field deal b/c you will have 120 cars show up.
I agree.
I raced both Super Comp and Super Eliminator for many, many years. That being said, I would be the first to admit that throttle stop racing is not for spectators. It is simply boring to watch.
That being said, I don't see NHRA giving up the revenue coming in from hundreds of Super-x racers at every National event. On the other hand, NHRA could accept hundreds of entries from TD and TS and only allow the top 32 or 64 to qualify for Sunday. Now, that would be kick-arse and the fans would probably enjoy watching.
Just my opinion.
rocketman
Nitro Member
One can only hope. The super classes were pretty cool until throttle stops came into play and guy begin to build big engines then the classes went right down the tube. Because of their big numbers they are a cash cow for NHRA.
Already in division 6 Top Dragster is a 64 car field. that would have been good for us back when we barely qualified but now being one of the fastest cars it kind of sucks.
Already in division 6 Top Dragster is a 64 car field. that would have been good for us back when we barely qualified but now being one of the fastest cars it kind of sucks.
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"Dr. Dirt"
Nitro Member
We're currently building a Top Comp type car that will never have any throttle stop equipment on it if I can out-vote the three sons. As long as I still own the car, I'm betting on my vote. I'll openly admit I believe that it's time to evolve from electronics winning races. It's pretty sad when the computer geeks consistently outclass the life-long motor head racing a drag car 1/4 mile. Something just seems wrong about that to me?
MoparBilly
Nitro Member
Bobby,
Your perception is not reality, great drivers win races in SC, SG every weekend. The electronics help everyone get close, and make talent behind the wheel a premium component.
If Top Dragster/Top Sportsman ever replace SC/SG at that level, costs to compete in those classes will spiral exponentialy out of control, and Sportsman participation would plummet. For all of NHRA's flaws, they do have good bean counters, and that's not a scenario for a healthy future.
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I'll bet most of these SuperX cars have over $10,000 in they're motors now. How will allowing a quick 64-128 make it more expensive? I remember 10 years ago you rarely saw Super cars go over 170 MPH, now that's been bumped to 200 MPH! I think JUstin's right, most of those S/C guys can go 7.90's or quicker now.
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.
Nitro Member
Joe, A friend of mine is just finishing up his new 622 and I think the heads alone were about 5K (maybe more after valves, keepers, retainers, rocker shaft rockers, springs etc) So I would agree.... most super racers have an easy 10K invested into their engines.
MoparBilly
Nitro Member
200 mph SC/SG rides are not controlable or consistant..yet. But 170 in SC, and 160 in SG is a pretty good place to be. But a bucks-down competitor with a good handle on his program can still show up with a SC digger going 152 or a SG Car running 137 and compete.
If SG/SC were replaced with 64 car qualified fields of Top Dragster and Top Sportsman...within 2 seasons dragster BUMPS would be in the 6.70's, and door cars in the 7.20's..does that sound affordable to you??
Have you taken a close look at a true Top Sportsman style 7.20 bracket car?? The cost and sophistication required to build a car that will, run close to a pro stocker, repeat in varying track conditions, and not require extensive maintenance, is unbeleivable...It makes 60,000$ SG cars look tame in comparison.
If SG/SC were replaced with 64 car qualified fields of Top Dragster and Top Sportsman...within 2 seasons dragster BUMPS would be in the 6.70's, and door cars in the 7.20's..does that sound affordable to you??
Have you taken a close look at a true Top Sportsman style 7.20 bracket car?? The cost and sophistication required to build a car that will, run close to a pro stocker, repeat in varying track conditions, and not require extensive maintenance, is unbeleivable...It makes 60,000$ SG cars look tame in comparison.
merc49
Nitro Member
I first saw TS and TD classes run last year at the LODRS in Mid-Michigan. I really didn't know what they were at first. I was amazed at these 2 classes. I have a friend who, with his son, races in SG and they say that it's getting harder and harder to compete against the high dollar, mega-motored cars that are entering the class. The advantage the big motored SG cars have is that they come from behind so quickly that the "normal" SG car drivers have no idea when they'll be caught or passed. But, they continue to love the .90 type racing. As a spectator I can't stand it.
Greggo
Nitro Member
T. - One was in Houston and ran 217 and 218mph.
Wes
Nitro Member
A competitive S/C or S/G car will set you back $60,000. True, you can buy a used small block dragster for about $14K and run the number but don't count on being able to have tune-up to spare and the power for consistency. Costs aren't an issue. I've spent less on a 7.20 Top Dragster than I ever spent on a "bells and whistles" 8.90 car. Oh...just for the record. Most of those 170+ 8.90 cars can run much quicker than 7.70...try 7.10-7.30. That'll qualify them at most T/D events.
NHRA would end up with a similar field quality that IHRA enjoys at it's national events. Perhaps quicker in some regions of the country, slower in others. Bumps for a 48 car field range from the 7.70 minimum to 6.80's at races in Division 3. One thing you have to keep in mind is that IHRA has NO pre-entry policy for sportsman racers. NHRA does and will continue to. That will play a role in the size and quickness of the fields. If you notice, NHRA keeps the size of the .90 classes under control at their events. We used to have over 100-120 cars in S/C and S/G EACH a decade ago but with the pit space for sportsman cars dwindling and the events being run on a tighter schedule most of those classes are limited not not much more than 64 cars. Same number of cars, same entry fee, same space requirements, but fewer headaches and a better show. Not a difficult decision in my opinion.
Another thing to consider is tech man hours. Takes a lot less time to tech an all-out race car than one with throttle stops and who-knows-what on it. Check them over for the mandated safety equipment, adherance to the class rules, and driver credentials and slap the sticker on them. No tracing throttle stop or shifter or tachometer wiring.
I think we'll see it come to fruition in the next 2-3 years. Give all the divisions time to standardize the classes at the LODRS events, build a strong racer base, and iron out any issues they see. Once the divisions are happy with it we'll see one or both of the classes start to penetrate national events. I can't wait!
NHRA would end up with a similar field quality that IHRA enjoys at it's national events. Perhaps quicker in some regions of the country, slower in others. Bumps for a 48 car field range from the 7.70 minimum to 6.80's at races in Division 3. One thing you have to keep in mind is that IHRA has NO pre-entry policy for sportsman racers. NHRA does and will continue to. That will play a role in the size and quickness of the fields. If you notice, NHRA keeps the size of the .90 classes under control at their events. We used to have over 100-120 cars in S/C and S/G EACH a decade ago but with the pit space for sportsman cars dwindling and the events being run on a tighter schedule most of those classes are limited not not much more than 64 cars. Same number of cars, same entry fee, same space requirements, but fewer headaches and a better show. Not a difficult decision in my opinion.
Another thing to consider is tech man hours. Takes a lot less time to tech an all-out race car than one with throttle stops and who-knows-what on it. Check them over for the mandated safety equipment, adherance to the class rules, and driver credentials and slap the sticker on them. No tracing throttle stop or shifter or tachometer wiring.
I think we'll see it come to fruition in the next 2-3 years. Give all the divisions time to standardize the classes at the LODRS events, build a strong racer base, and iron out any issues they see. Once the divisions are happy with it we'll see one or both of the classes start to penetrate national events. I can't wait!
T/S has been run at the last two Southern Nationals Events and from what I've seen it has been well received by the fans. IMO, they put on a much better show than, say, S/ST. A 10.90 class at a national event just does not get the fans too excited, but the T/S type, that runs high 6's and low 7's, usually holds the fans interest. I think that some type of T/S, T/C and a T/D will eventually find it's way into national events. Hell, they are already as fast, or faster, than the old Pro/Comp class that was very popular years ago. Just keep them on carbs or FI and ban the blowers.
Pat
Pat
Wes
Nitro Member
Exactly, Pat! When my dad raced Pro Comp most of the tracks they ran couldn't hold more than a 6.90-7.20. They would hit 6.80's at a national event with killer air. Now, I've got a car that can run 7.20 and all I have to do between rounds is put more alky in the tank, charge the batteries, and make sure the nitrous bottle is full and warm enough. And I consider myself a SLOW car. I can almost turn the car around in 5-10 minutes.
Joker
Nitro Member
The only problem I see with NHRA replacing SC/SG with TD/TS would be the fields. And the reason I say that is b/c if they make it a 64 car field, then everyone will have to spend money to buy bigger and better engines b/c it will take a 7.30 or better more than likely to get into the show. Our TD runs 7.30's at 185mph and I would bet we would be in the low bottom half of the field.
NHRA will never get rid of the sportsman guys b/c as said earlier its a cash cow for them. I know I love the TD/TS races at the divisionals. I do believe TS would cost alot more though than TD. And in my opinion they shouldnt have top 4 shoot outs or anything like that for the top 4 qualifyers b/c thats just an incentive for people to spend more money and as always you have those guys that always want to be the fastest. But overall, I think its great for the NHRA to do it, just with specific rules and such.
NHRA will never get rid of the sportsman guys b/c as said earlier its a cash cow for them. I know I love the TD/TS races at the divisionals. I do believe TS would cost alot more though than TD. And in my opinion they shouldnt have top 4 shoot outs or anything like that for the top 4 qualifyers b/c thats just an incentive for people to spend more money and as always you have those guys that always want to be the fastest. But overall, I think its great for the NHRA to do it, just with specific rules and such.
