Will john force race capps straight up ??? (1 Viewer)

[ironpony]

Don't get me wrong, because I believe Force did it on purpose, but comparing baseball to the unpredictability of nitro racing is just ridiculous. Yes, he cut a horrible light, and yes, the car went towards the wall, but damn, that happens at every race across multiple classes. My point is, having someone make a judgement call on something that is so unpredictable is just asking for more trouble compared to just leaving it alone. JMO.

also happened in 09 when Hight was championship contender, bad lite turn right smoke tires. CHEATING way to obvious.

If I was Hight I would be embarrassed to claim a championship knowing a race was thrown in my favor. Drag racing is not a team sport.

 

[ironpony]

You guys crack me up. I take it that Force's tire smoker against a blown-up Capps in round 2 was a dive as well, right?

Dude!!! C'mon man really

 

[MM]

Drag racing is not a team sport.

What? Only person I have ever known that's been able to do everything himself and be competitive was Fred Mandoline.

 

[Gordon]

You guys crack me up. I take it that Force's tire smoker against a blown-up Capps in round 2 was a dive as well, right?

Umm... that was first round.

IMO, the problems is NHRA's rules against "team orders". Grown up fans are adult enough to accepts sometimes it makes more sense for a team to be a team and give away a round for the betterment of the team, but because NHRA will penalize a racer for doing that we get all this stupid theater.

But the bottom line is, if Capps beats Force, Force wouldn't be in a position to play stupid games.

This is not new to the sport, it's been happening for decades. Anyone remember Larry Minor tugging on the brake handle from about halftrack on hoping his teammate would be able to drive around him in the 80's? I can't recall the event (Baton Rouge?) or the teammate (Gary Beck?), but I remember enough to know it happened.

The no dive rule is the dumbest thing ever, if for no other reason than it's all but impossible to prove. If they're going to do anything at all I'd rather they implement an "intentional dive rule" kinda like an intentional walk in baseball. The rule would state that in the event two team cars are scheduled to face each other in a possible points positioning race, the winner shall be declared by the team and that car shall run a single. The penalty is that they would sacrifice lane choice no matter the ET in the following round. That said, I love and respect the fact that the Summit boys, including Bo Butner, race heads up each and every time they face off. I do think it's important to note though that it's a little easier for them because Summit wins either way. In Force's or Schumacher's case, they have to explain to a different sponsor why a team car didn't lay down so their product's car could advance in the points chase.

And I agree with your bottom line - if Capps beats Force in E1 we're not having this discussion. Similar to Tony at Indy when John reminded him, "My kid kicked your ass!"

 

[Sandman]

What? Only person I have ever known that's been able to do everything himself and be competitive was Fred Mandoline.

Point taken, and it brings up another question: what if you were the guy busting his butt all day on the bottom end, or the clutch or doing any one of the hectic between-round maintenance jobs on Force's car and he threw it away on purpose? Don't the crew members deserve a win? How about if you were Peak and you watched a car you pay good money to win and they lose on purpose. Cheating hurts everyone involved, no matter if they cheat to win or cheat to lose.

 

[tom]

IF "team orders" are horrible, why did NHRA only send a letter instead of amending rule book ?
ANSWER: because there is nothing more foolish than telling the world that you have passed a law against something that is not CURRENTLY provable. (the progressives are working on implementing thought police).
additional thoughts
1. 3rd round LV2; Courtney had lane choice and was 1st fuel car to choose left lane all day. She then ran lowest ET of day (except for 1st round when track temp was much cooler) against Robert Hight. What happened to team orders and can you imagine the uproar about lane choice if she had lost?
2. where was conversation when Richie Crampton shut car off with big lead over Doug Kalitta, 1st round at Indy. I know this was before countdown but seeding was still a factor. Is it only John who is never allowed to make a judgement call (if he did)?

 

[ironpony]

John is in the limelight, team OWNER, and very vocal which draws him a lot of added attention.

 

[vegasnitro]

I have watched F1 my whole life, so team orders have been a thing as long as I can remember, so I don't get too wrapped up in the drama. The ONLY way they will ever go away is if you limit every team to 1 car. That is bad for business. When you get down to the end of the season, and when 2 teams account for half the cars in the field, they will function as a team and support which ever car has the best chance to win it all. If that means new parts, more crew, bringing out another car as a blocker or other considerations behind the scenes that people don't see, they will do that. If that still isn't enough, you will see red lights and tire smoke to get those extra points. For everybody crying that the fix is in, there will be just as many people saying how dumb you were for letting a title get away by not maximizing your team's potential.

As for KB Racing, don't forget that Butner leases his ride from KB. There is no real incentive for Anderson or Line to lay down to him, nor would they want to explain that to their sponsors and owner when they still have a realistic shot at the points. While it may be a point of pride that one of their "customer" cars won a Championship, that doesn't feed the bulldog for KB Racing, Summit and Ken Black are not paying them to put someone else on top of the mountain.

 

[my friends call me Zappy]

Like it or not drag racing is a team sport, BIG business. Dives have been around and will Continue. In defence of NHRA, their hands are tied. 1} you can't police it. What are you gonna do, have a tech guy in the lanes inspecting ? " hey there your clutch is set up wrong, yet gonna smoke."
2} you CAN'T enforce after the fact. How you gonna prove the car didn't shut off, or the chutes didn't shake out ?

If there was no rule against, then the dive car could just remain in the pits and we wouldn't have the play acting. There would be a single and that's it. Save the teams money also.

 

[ironpony]

also everyone is asking about Courtney Hight, thinking Courtney should take a dive and secure Hights championship, why would she want to give it away? she is still in it.
Well if you look at the points with Courtney winning, Hight going up in smoke, she still has a chance, if she lost she is pretty much done. So was the Hight /Courtney run a set up? smoke at the hit? conspiracy theorists want to know...........

 

[TR]

IF "team orders" are horrible, why did NHRA only send a letter instead of amending rule book ?
ANSWER: because there is nothing more foolish than telling the world that you have passed a law against something that is not CURRENTLY provable. (the progressives are working on implementing thought police).
additional thoughts
1. 3rd round LV2; Courtney had lane choice and was 1st fuel car to choose left lane all day. She then ran lowest ET of day (except for 1st round when track temp was much cooler) against Robert Hight. What happened to team orders and can you imagine the uproar about lane choice if she had lost?
2. where was conversation when Richie Crampton shut car off with big lead over Doug Kalitta, 1st round at Indy. I know this was before countdown but seeding was still a factor. Is it only John who is never allowed to make a judgement call (if he did)?

On point 1, Height went up in smoke right after the hit, Courtney didn't have a chance to dive, without it being really super suspicious, like going over the centerline etc. Her win is what John is using as an excuse for not diving. I was there, trust me that was a dive, we sit directly in line with the starting line, that .193 light was very obvious.
Rick

 

[Bullard Anderson]

Forget about the "right to dive" for minute.

Ask yourself this about your life:

If I knew someone made a mistake or a direct intentional wrong, and when I asked the person about it they intentionally lied to me, then continued to deny and lie, then how would or should I view that person?

Our words can be either honest or lies. It doesn't matter if we are sitting across the table on a first date, or talking into a microphone on TV to the viewing public. We are either communicating a truth or a lie. And that reveals the integrity of a man or woman.

I don't think I'm taking truth, honor, and integrity to serious here. Nothing is more serious in defining character. Feel free to reread this 16 times if you need to.

 

[TSK]

How, or why, did politics enter the picture?
There’s a forum for that and this isn’t it.

 

[HEMI6point1]

Umm... that was first round.

Okay, sorry. I stand corrected.

But seriously, let's say John Force did what everyone says he did. He sits 6th in points with no chance at this point to make it. Hight sat #2 before that 2nd round matchup only a few points back from Capps. If you were in John's shoes as team owner, what would you do? Do you race heads up and take the chance of ruining a shot to give your team car the points lead, or do you "take one for the team?"

 

[RM FAN]

Okay, sorry. I stand corrected.

But seriously, let's say John Force did what everyone says he did. He sits 6th in points with no chance at this point to make it. Hight sat #2 before that 2nd round matchup only a few points back from Capps. If you were in John's shoes as team owner, what would you do? Do you race heads up and take the chance of ruining a shot to give your team car the points lead, or do you "take one for the team?"

John created this back when he hired Tony to dive for him then adding up to 4 cars with mostly the same sponsors trying to get them all into the top 10 or countdown. Now 3 cars with different sponsors and still diving. What would I do? Either not have a multi car team or dont make promises to sponsors you cant keep without shenanigans.

 

[nitrobobby]

After John won over Capps round 1. A somber JF interview said it all. Ron is my friend but Robert is family. JF knew what he had to do round 2 !!!

 

[ironpony]

IF John did throw the race, which I believe he did, he has defrauded the NHRA the fans, AND his sponsors. Yes he got a team mate into a better position but failed what PEAK is paying him to do.
PEAK made an investment in him along with multiple others and he wasted their money for the day. Fans are cheering for John not necessarily the whole team. and he failed them.
People work hard for their money and choose to spend it on NHRA tickets which are not cheap for the average consumer, they should at least get real racing.
Want fixed results? go watch pro wrestling.
Think NFL here, people are voting with their money.........I will always come to watch the show but since no more MOPAR in PS I probably won't go to 10-13 events a year anymore......probably more like 3-4

 

[PJ]

I'm not a fan of dives but I get why they happen. Sometimes you make the move for business. The competitor in my hates it, but I understand the business side. I just hate the lying about it. I realize he can't come out and say it due to the rules AND I realize it would look very bad for the NHRA if they made a rule saying you could dive. It would be better if John claimed he had a bent chassis and just didn't show up for that round.
Even though the teams have different main sponsors they are all connected. It could be that a sponsor called and told John this is what needed to happen. I know of that happening in the past with teams. Not sure about this case, but it is an angle not mentioned here yet.

 

[Dennis]

Forget about the "right to dive" for minute.

Ask yourself this about your life:

If I knew someone made a mistake or a direct intentional wrong, and when I asked the person about it they intentionally lied to me, then continued to deny and lie, then how would or should I view that person?

At the end of the day it's entertainment. My life is not changed because "the best FC driver in the world" somehow forgot what yellow means and somehow lost control of his vehicle at the beginning of the race. It's business.

Maybe before the NHRA became corporate, the championships mattered, but face it, the entire championship is meaningless, except to a few hundred people. The people in the stands generally care about what happens that day, and they are the ones NHRA is trying to attract.

I think the other item, with respect to the "integrity of the situation", is that if it were someone other than the other mega-team owner crying, then maybe there is an issue. The silence from the other competitors is enough to say that this is business, and everyone saw that coming.

Until NHRA gets rid of a meaningless "championship" this will rear its head from time to time.

I'd rather see some type of "world series/superbowl" type thing at the end of the year determine who's the best. No qualifying, double elimination, race begins on day 1, seeded by the accumulation of points. You've had 20+ races to fine tune your race car, no qualifying needed.

Would be a lot more exciting than this chase the race crap. Or whatever they're calling it.

 

[nitrobobby]

Great post PJ.!!! . FYI the last race of season is the AAA auto club finals .Robert hight main sponser. Connect the dots!!!