The "Greek" gets shafted by the qualifying rules! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter DragFan2
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You can feel that way ... but as far as understanding why it exists, see posts #6 and #18. Many top players (not the lower budget teams) were complaining about thier position coming out of Friday night as they missed the set-up and now were forced to try and qualify in the heat of the day. Thier complaint, "it wasn't fair". This was about position, points and $$ associated with qualifying in the top half of the field. This wasn't a case of NHRA making up another crazy rule as most would like to believe. It was a direct response to complaints from higher funded teams who felt the playing field wasn't level in the old format.It may be the way it is, but it still SUCKS!!!!! I never understood the reasoning behind this deal.
Options were a second night session on Saturday, teams balked because those conditions wouldn't reflect race day conditions. So, an alternative was hatched. Some fans don't like it but. Drivers seem to be quiet now on the subject.
I also agree with Chris Cook ... Indy is kind of an anomally now with the extra session and larger than normal car count.
That's why with the lower car counts this year, if you look back you'll see many of the lower budgeted teams haven't made a qualifying pass until Saturday as most likely a good A to B pass will get them into the field. Indy (unfortunately) is different.
DragFan2
Nitro Member
I totally understand the logic behind what NHRA did to help teams that miss on the only "good" qualifying session which is typically Friday night, at least during the summer months, I'm just wishing it didn't bite someone like Chris Karamesines like it did. There will never be a "completely" fair system for everyone. Chris normally would not even be able to qualify for most NHRA events when 17-20+ cars show up. Now that there are only about 8-10 well funded Top Fuel cars on the circuit, the past two years have been great for low budget teams to get into the 16-car field.
mick
Nitro Member
jim, your explanation IMO is perfect - can not argue with you, think you
are correct how and why this rule came to be.
still don't agree with it though - not qualifying is a real possibility in nhra;
regardless of team status. this rule, besides confusing fans, is not quite
on par with nascar's provisionals, but edging towards it.
That qualifying rule is the worst thing to happen to drag racing. If you run in the top 16 in any qualifying session, you're in the show. Period. Amen. I don't think it adds any suspense to the race at all. I'd also like to see the old format of first races ninth, second races tenth, third races elventh, etc be brought back. Why should the number one qualifier race the bottom of the field? That change only benefits the high dollar team. I miss the day of the regional privateers coming out and a getting a lucky punch on some of the big names.
my friends call me Zappy
Nitro Member
I tend to agree on both these points but there's legitimate reasons for both rules. The Top 12 rule gives the little guy a better shot at getting in the field; the first-races-last rule was designed to help keep the big-money (and big-sponsor) cars from getting canned in the first round.
The Greek didn't get cheated per se; he was a victim of unfortunate circumstance and a rule that's not always fair. No different from what happened to Tim Wilkerson.
my friends call me Zappy
Nitro Member
Didn't get cheated??? Greek was one of the 16 quickest, yet didn't race. How does nhra think thats right???
Everyone gets 4 chances - top 16 should race, period. shouldn't mater what day it is.
Everyone gets 4 chances - top 16 should race, period. shouldn't mater what day it is.
But, how does anyone know how the organization would change for the better under the Sheik, Bruton, or even a group of the big $$ owners? Talk is one thing, executing is entirely another. Maybe the Sheik or Bruton do own NHRA someday, what happens when they get bored or decide they have thrown enough money at that venture and want to move on? What is the next prospective owner left with? What's the racer left with?
I look at this the same way as any election in the USA (sorry about the political reference), candidates (or those opposed to the current system) will tell you things they know you want to hear and tell you what is wrong with the way the current guy does things. Once the change is made ... many things remain status quo. They can talk all they want about how "This has to change" and "This has never worked right" but you might find out the current state of affairs ain't so bad.
This discussion can never happen without equal concern for the present as well as the future. NHRA has been around for 60 years under its current format. Are there things that are in need of change? Sure. But I do not see a Sheik or Bruton looking for an equal 60 year commitment.
Careful what you wish for, the grass isn't always greener on the other side. It may look that way, but people tend to let distaste in the current state cloud their perspective.
In the wake of a great Mac Tools US Nationals, thank you Dave Rieff, I have paused to ponder:
Can the NHRA ever develop a rule/payout package that is fair and recognized as such? I, too, would have liked to see "The Greek" on race day. What rule would satisfy in all cases?
Why does ESPN2 feel the need to remind us that the US Nationals is a big deal, every minute of every hour, of all of their coverage, every year?
Why do they feel the need to remind everyone, constantly, that the MoPar Mile High Nationals are conducted a mile above sea level? Is it a part of their well known "altitude awareness" policy?
Will GM have new bodies available to replace the lumpen Impala in Funny Car, the out of production Cobalts and GXPs (Requiescat in Pace, Pontiac) in Pro/Stock and the out of production Monte Carlo in TAFC? My vote, if it matters: Buick LaCrosse for FC, Chevy Cruze for PS, and Buick Regal for TAFC. I could be wrong, but the Camaro looks to have an aerodynamic disadvantage.
What is the signal identifier of the commentary on the Pit Area on the 'Mater?
The serial didactic ipsedixitisms, perhaps? Mine included?
Cheers,
Ed
Rocky Mountain Superchargers
Can the NHRA ever develop a rule/payout package that is fair and recognized as such? I, too, would have liked to see "The Greek" on race day. What rule would satisfy in all cases?
Why does ESPN2 feel the need to remind us that the US Nationals is a big deal, every minute of every hour, of all of their coverage, every year?
Why do they feel the need to remind everyone, constantly, that the MoPar Mile High Nationals are conducted a mile above sea level? Is it a part of their well known "altitude awareness" policy?
Will GM have new bodies available to replace the lumpen Impala in Funny Car, the out of production Cobalts and GXPs (Requiescat in Pace, Pontiac) in Pro/Stock and the out of production Monte Carlo in TAFC? My vote, if it matters: Buick LaCrosse for FC, Chevy Cruze for PS, and Buick Regal for TAFC. I could be wrong, but the Camaro looks to have an aerodynamic disadvantage.
What is the signal identifier of the commentary on the Pit Area on the 'Mater?
The serial didactic ipsedixitisms, perhaps? Mine included?
Cheers,
Ed
Rocky Mountain Superchargers
mick
Nitro Member
Cheated, as in someone (or some group) deliberately targeting Greek in an attempt to keep him out of Sunday's action. That's what I mean by 'cheated, per se'.
Screwed as a result of a controversial rule? Absolutely. I'd hate to run a 3.92, not make the field and have to watch 3 cars who couldn't run quicker than 4-teens (spots 14-16) get to enjoy Sunday's action - and round 1 money.
my friends call me Zappy
Nitro Member
Registered member said:
my friends call me Zappy
Nitro Member
But, how does anyone know how the organization would change for the better under the Sheik, Bruton, or even a group of the big $$ owners? Talk is one thing, executing is entirely another.
Yer right sir, no one knows the future. When it comes to executing, I know nothing about the sheik, but Connie, Don, John, and Bruton are business men, and VERY success ones at that.
With nhra's recent preformance and lack of safety concerns when it comes out of their pockets, I'm sure the above mentioned would do better.
But alas, it won't happen so we'll never know.
vegasnitro
Nitro Member
There has NEVER been ANY form of motorsports successfully run by the racers competing in that series. So I would not be in favor of either the Sheikh, or the Sheikh in concert with other team owners purchasing/running the NHRA. Bruton is fantastic at buying/building some racetracks and promoting events at those tracks ... but he has shown no ability to write the checks for the series, rather than count the gate.
Some of the things Compton and Company do make no sense to me, but it's ALWAYS better the devil you know than the devil you don't.
Some of the things Compton and Company do make no sense to me, but it's ALWAYS better the devil you know than the devil you don't.
DragFan2
Nitro Member
Hey Zappy,
I sure didn't mean to (maybe I did
) stir up so much passion from people on both sides of this issue. I just meant to make an observation that I felt wasn't right, but was done "per the rules" that everyone was playing under. It was such a shame to see that The Greek ran well enough on Friday AND Saturday although not better than the 12th qualier either of those days, and then to make his worst run(s) on Sunday which was the only day that counted. That's drag racing though, and other than the confusion it causes for many fans, the rule has helped a good number of times as much as it has hurt, probably more help than hurt, but in this case it hurt The Greek, and he doesn't have many more years to make it into the Indy field.
vegasnitro
Nitro Member
PRO was before my time
... I was thinking more of the CART/Champ Car/IRL fiasco ... and the myriad of sportscar sanctions that have come and gone ... NONE of the guys in the front office in Glendora have competed in a long time, and their business has been running a motorsports sanction for a long time, and have brought in Compton and others from outside so that there may be some semblance of checks and balances.IMO, there is not a lot wrong with the NHRA ... a twist here or a turn there and it could be gravy days again.
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