Is drag racing a business or a sport (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter BigDaddyB
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Dragracer
Nitro Member
Sport or a Business. I guess it depends on who you are and how much money you have. I've known many people over the years that had lots of money and raced as a hobby. It wasn't a sport or a business, it was a hobby. But that takes lots of money. Have to admit that as a hobby it's a lot more fun than trying to run as a business - a lot less stress.
Like someone said many many years ago - You want to know how to make a million dollars? ANSWER: Go drag racing. Race a Pro class and start with 5 million and at the end of the year you should be down to your million - if you are lucky enough.
Like someone said many many years ago - You want to know how to make a million dollars? ANSWER: Go drag racing. Race a Pro class and start with 5 million and at the end of the year you should be down to your million - if you are lucky enough.
the real question: is it a sport or entertainment? or is it both as well as a business?
these days the lines between sports and entertainment are blurred beyond recognition on the professional level of any sport, baseball, basketball, football, racing, hockey, etc.....
takes a lot of money to keep us entertained by our sports!
these days the lines between sports and entertainment are blurred beyond recognition on the professional level of any sport, baseball, basketball, football, racing, hockey, etc.....
takes a lot of money to keep us entertained by our sports!
John,
I have sincere abhorrence to word entertainment in any sport that athletes compete against one another to see who prepared the the best, who is in better shape, more skill, more inventive, able to come thru the hardships of their sport, come thru in the clutch, the ability to define themselves in pressure packed moments. Life is not entertainment. It might entaining in some instances but not entertainment. To say its entertainment is a disservice to the to people competing. They compete. If its entertainment lets choregraph it, direct it, and then we can know the outcome. Let's be like the WWE now that is entertainment. They are actors.
Baseball, Basketball, Football, Hockey, Golf, Bowling, Skiing, Motocrosws, Formula 1, the Daytona 500, Tennis, these are competitions between people who believe they have the abilities to be the champions of their sport. If its entertainment who gives damn who wins so long as you keep me there in my seat or watching on the tube. If Pro drag racing is a show then we should be getting a lot more for our money.
I have sincere abhorrence to word entertainment in any sport that athletes compete against one another to see who prepared the the best, who is in better shape, more skill, more inventive, able to come thru the hardships of their sport, come thru in the clutch, the ability to define themselves in pressure packed moments. Life is not entertainment. It might entaining in some instances but not entertainment. To say its entertainment is a disservice to the to people competing. They compete. If its entertainment lets choregraph it, direct it, and then we can know the outcome. Let's be like the WWE now that is entertainment. They are actors.
Baseball, Basketball, Football, Hockey, Golf, Bowling, Skiing, Motocrosws, Formula 1, the Daytona 500, Tennis, these are competitions between people who believe they have the abilities to be the champions of their sport. If its entertainment who gives damn who wins so long as you keep me there in my seat or watching on the tube. If Pro drag racing is a show then we should be getting a lot more for our money.
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mick
Nitro Member
well said bruce - especially the phrase 'life is not entertainment'.
....and about tennis, someone told me once 'tennis more than nine'
Call it what you want you either run it in a business like manner with an eye on the bottom line or the next year you'll be watching on ESPN2. That's true unless you won the lottery or just had a large inherintance. In those cases it might take more than one year but you'll still wind up in the recliner watching. And that's true no mater what class you compete in.
sorry guys, i hate to be the bearer of bad news, but every pro sport considers itself a form of entertainment. it's sad, but it is true. as long as money is involved that's the way they look at it. unfortunately that is the reality of the situation.
was it hemingway who said there are only three true sports? bullfighting, mountain climbing and automobile racing. or something close to that.
was it hemingway who said there are only three true sports? bullfighting, mountain climbing and automobile racing. or something close to that.
John,
Appreciate your point. The business model in drag racing is there one. Example, $25,000 for chassis, $50,000 for the motor, $15,000 for the rearend, $1800 for tires, $2000 for rims, $1000 for paint, $500 for helmet, $2000 for firesuit and accessories, $800 for data recording, ect., as you can see you put more in than you get out of racing. You 250k invested in your ride and you win 10% of that back in a year that is a losing proposition. The next year cost remain the same or go up. My point is that drag racing is for love of the sport. Even in the Pro ranks FC is running for $50,000 and the car cost $450,000 you have to win 10 races to recover you initial investment. That doesn't cover the recurring cost of rebuilds, tires, fuel, pistions, rods, rings, oil, ect. So if it is not for the love of the sport then someone needs to point me to the profitable side of drag racing. Its a dry hole an like me and many others love to pouring money into it.
Appreciate your point. The business model in drag racing is there one. Example, $25,000 for chassis, $50,000 for the motor, $15,000 for the rearend, $1800 for tires, $2000 for rims, $1000 for paint, $500 for helmet, $2000 for firesuit and accessories, $800 for data recording, ect., as you can see you put more in than you get out of racing. You 250k invested in your ride and you win 10% of that back in a year that is a losing proposition. The next year cost remain the same or go up. My point is that drag racing is for love of the sport. Even in the Pro ranks FC is running for $50,000 and the car cost $450,000 you have to win 10 races to recover you initial investment. That doesn't cover the recurring cost of rebuilds, tires, fuel, pistions, rods, rings, oil, ect. So if it is not for the love of the sport then someone needs to point me to the profitable side of drag racing. Its a dry hole an like me and many others love to pouring money into it.
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John, that's why we should be very careful who we let control our sports because when it is strictly a profit motive behind the words, the actions and the presentation of all those sports it deludes the viewer or observer into thinking that this is just a put together for trhe entertainment for the general public. I think the participants would like for presentation to be that this is waht it takes to be at the top of you game. I quite sure when Dale Sr. hit that wall in Daytona there was not notewothy entertainment value in that incident. In my sport you mean tell me there is room for Don Prudhomme in the NHRA's management team. Is it that he doesn't want the future of the NHRA or is he truly done with the organization and fans that made him a legend in the sport. I don't think that is true. I think the NBA haas been the best at getting some its star performers into mangement poistions within the NBA. The media shouldn't let them get away the entertainment anology in drag racing. When you look at the Super Bowl the competiton between the Green Bay Packers vs.Pittsburgh Steelers will have 2 halves of competition and a Halftime show.
Here is a show. We take the top ten TF, FC, PS, PSM an rotate them out to all 22 events during the season. Don't pay any prize money. Let them be paid as entertainers. Then we could tailor the show, who is up, who is down at each stop. Do the polling to see who is on top in that region make it his show. Contract them for 2-3 years. They would be paid by the NHRA, no owners, we stablized cost, so as to limit competitive advantage. We could call it a show then. Don't know how long it would last but it would be a show.
d'kid
Nitro Member
People who don't watch football all season will watch the Superbowl when ever it's on, I don't plan on it... Same goes for the world series, March Madness, whatever the NBA calls their series... I don't understand it, but people even watch Golf on TV.... Pro Rodeo... And bowling... Pro Sports are Entertainment, I would go so far as to say must College sports are also.
but, people also play baseball and softball, I bowl, some may race bracket cars, or Saturday Night dirt tracks. Pop Warner football... a lot of people hunt golfs.. understand the live in tribes of 18 in grassy parks several hundred yards from each other, and really get off if they ever put a hole in one....
But, I believe Drag Racing is Both, it's a business for a Pro or semi-Pro... and a very expensive hobby/sport for others.
There is no right or wrong answer, no black or white... it is what it is... in the eye of the beer holder...
d'kid
but, people also play baseball and softball, I bowl, some may race bracket cars, or Saturday Night dirt tracks. Pop Warner football... a lot of people hunt golfs.. understand the live in tribes of 18 in grassy parks several hundred yards from each other, and really get off if they ever put a hole in one....
But, I believe Drag Racing is Both, it's a business for a Pro or semi-Pro... and a very expensive hobby/sport for others.
There is no right or wrong answer, no black or white... it is what it is... in the eye of the beer holder...
d'kid
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Everybody views the world through their own lens. Surely competitive sport is a form of entertainment for certain of the spectators, but others sit in the stands and live through each of the elements of the competition as if they were in it. Bruce, you seem to want others to share your view, but those who are truly in it for a business (NFL probably being a top dog, or near the top at a minimum) realize that philosophy limits the revenue opportunities, so you get halftime, allow more celebration after plays, etc. To each his own, that seems to be the way the world works best.
Treeshaker
Nitro Member
Anything that draws spectators, whether they pay or not, is entertainment to the spectators. They may just be there to amuse themselves, or are living their fantacies through the participants.
Any endeavor that you participate in is actually a business. Even when you work for some one else, you are renting your time and knowledge to them for a fee, which is the bases of a business. Participating in sports is also a business. You have skills and knowledge, capital expenses, operational expenses, and a return based upon your ability to create income.
I bowl in a league and I have capital expenses, my ball(s), bag, shoes, etc,, there are recurring maintenance costs and fees, skill levels through experience and practice, and the ability to earn income through league prize funds. Now some put more into bowling than I do, they practice more, bowl in more leagues and bowl in tournaments thoughout the year, and are good enough that they show a profit at the end of the year. They rate as good businessmen/women to me. I don't have the drive to focus on bowling enough to show a profit, so I'm not so good as a businessman in that sport. But I am happy with the pleasure and money that I do get from the sport and am willing to supplement it with income from other sources.
In drag racing, I do have the drive and focus to show a profit with any car that I race. Not all the earnings come from the prize money at the track. In fact, the vast majority comes from residual sources that want to be involved with our racing endeavors. I run the cars with the bottom line as the main factor. If that means I cannot run as hard as some of the other guys, so be it. But hopefully, I run respectfully and it is within the realm of coming out ahead at the end of the event. I have never ran any of my cars with a "win at all costs" attitude.
Even your life at home should be ran like a business. Those that are good at running it that way are always in the black, and the ones that don't are fighting the red all the time.
The secret is to do the things in life that you enjoy most and get paid for doing it. And yes, there are ways to make money doing just about anything in life.
If you don't like how someone else is running their business, go start your own and run it your way. We need to stop the whining about how others are ruining our life, nobody forces us to run at any certain track, or sanctioning body, or class. We should be doing it by choice if we feel that we can be happy doing it within the confines of their playground.
Any endeavor that you participate in is actually a business. Even when you work for some one else, you are renting your time and knowledge to them for a fee, which is the bases of a business. Participating in sports is also a business. You have skills and knowledge, capital expenses, operational expenses, and a return based upon your ability to create income.
I bowl in a league and I have capital expenses, my ball(s), bag, shoes, etc,, there are recurring maintenance costs and fees, skill levels through experience and practice, and the ability to earn income through league prize funds. Now some put more into bowling than I do, they practice more, bowl in more leagues and bowl in tournaments thoughout the year, and are good enough that they show a profit at the end of the year. They rate as good businessmen/women to me. I don't have the drive to focus on bowling enough to show a profit, so I'm not so good as a businessman in that sport. But I am happy with the pleasure and money that I do get from the sport and am willing to supplement it with income from other sources.
In drag racing, I do have the drive and focus to show a profit with any car that I race. Not all the earnings come from the prize money at the track. In fact, the vast majority comes from residual sources that want to be involved with our racing endeavors. I run the cars with the bottom line as the main factor. If that means I cannot run as hard as some of the other guys, so be it. But hopefully, I run respectfully and it is within the realm of coming out ahead at the end of the event. I have never ran any of my cars with a "win at all costs" attitude.
Even your life at home should be ran like a business. Those that are good at running it that way are always in the black, and the ones that don't are fighting the red all the time.
The secret is to do the things in life that you enjoy most and get paid for doing it. And yes, there are ways to make money doing just about anything in life.
If you don't like how someone else is running their business, go start your own and run it your way. We need to stop the whining about how others are ruining our life, nobody forces us to run at any certain track, or sanctioning body, or class. We should be doing it by choice if we feel that we can be happy doing it within the confines of their playground.
Great post Virgil, including the part about running your house like a business. I disagree with whoever said that there are very few hobby racers anymore. Out of the thousands of sportsman racers, only a handfull make a living in those categories, like Rampy and Fletcher. If you look at the pro classes, yes there are some drivers and/or owners who do it for a living, but even then I believe it's a small percentage. Even Shoe, with as big as his operation is, I would bet this is purely a passion thing, as we all know he doesn't need to race to eat. However, that doesn't mean he doesn't treat his racing as a business. There are a few teams out there that have made racing their sole livelihood, but I think the number of wealthy hobby racers is a bigger one. I may be wrong, I'm sure someone like Virgil would have an accurate take on it.
Paul
Nitro Member
Virgil, there are some great insights in your post, and I'm with it all the way up to the end, but I tripped on the statement below:
If the NHRA had been formed as a company with private owners then I would agree 100% with everything you said.
But it wasn't, it was formed as a stand alone non-profit company with no ownership and it was originally clearly stated that it was to be controlled by its members, the racers.
So the clear intention was that it was to be "our playground", not "their playground".
If you are comfortable with the means they used to take control of the company and run it like they own it then I guess your statement stands correct.
But I don't think the means they used to take control was on firm moral grounds and we may soon find it was not on firm legal grounds either.
If the NHRA had been formed as a company with private owners then I would agree 100% with everything you said.
But it wasn't, it was formed as a stand alone non-profit company with no ownership and it was originally clearly stated that it was to be controlled by its members, the racers.
So the clear intention was that it was to be "our playground", not "their playground".
If you are comfortable with the means they used to take control of the company and run it like they own it then I guess your statement stands correct.
But I don't think the means they used to take control was on firm moral grounds and we may soon find it was not on firm legal grounds either.
Mr. Hartman you made some very good points. I believe that there some who use your business model as their own. My company had contracted to do the janitorial services for this food processing company, coporate headquarters, an one ocassion I saw a picture in one of the offices. The picture depicted a lion and a gazelle. With this quotation under the picture " The gazelle rises every morning with one thought in mind and that is not to be eaten by the lion. The lion rises every morning with one thougt on its mind and that is how can he eat the gazelle. Which one do you want to be". It had a sincere impact on my thought processes. No longer did I want be passive in conducting my business. I want to be hunter and not the hunted.
Virgil,
Steve Jobs is the CEO Apple Coporattion. It is a publically traded company with shareholders. Those shareholders have right to determine who runs Apple, this is accominplished by them having the right to elect a Board of Directors who they field exercise their duties in the best interest of the company. Whether you own one share or million you have a voice. Ok, I believe that I am also a shareholder but my share is called a membership. I believe that my membership should have rights and obligations as any shareholder has in a publically traded company. Virgil when they accepted my money they gave me the right by the articles of coporation and its bylaws to add my 2 cent into the administration of the company. Now we have fought a war base on the principle that taking money from a person without representation is a bad thing. So tell me were these people whining, should they pick up their belongings and get out of dodge an start all over again.
Steve Jobs is the CEO Apple Coporattion. It is a publically traded company with shareholders. Those shareholders have right to determine who runs Apple, this is accominplished by them having the right to elect a Board of Directors who they field exercise their duties in the best interest of the company. Whether you own one share or million you have a voice. Ok, I believe that I am also a shareholder but my share is called a membership. I believe that my membership should have rights and obligations as any shareholder has in a publically traded company. Virgil when they accepted my money they gave me the right by the articles of coporation and its bylaws to add my 2 cent into the administration of the company. Now we have fought a war base on the principle that taking money from a person without representation is a bad thing. So tell me were these people whining, should they pick up their belongings and get out of dodge an start all over again.
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