Automatic deployment equipment (2 Viewers)

[Speed1288]

Jim, you're absolutely correct. The difference in Atco now vs. several years ago is night and day. Kudos to Joe Sway for all his effort and improvements.

I've been going there since I was a little kid so I will say its gotten alot better over time. Its a good track for racing thats for sure

 

[Tim5636sc]

I've got it Chris, an F16 drop hook.

Better yet...a giant rubber band..or bungey cord??

I hate making light of this situation, but in regards to 'HOW TO STOP A RACE CAR', I have absolutely NO freaking idea what will "WORK". What works for a short wheelbase vehicle might not work as good as a 'pipe-rack'.

What remains constant is we lost a friend on Sunday. Whether it was due to the design on the nets, the length of the sand, or the design of the car....something happened which took the man who was the textbook definition of "Ingenuity in Action" away from his wife and daughter, his racing family and friends.

It needs to be investigated, and determined what happened and then fixed. I'm tired of saying goodbye to friends before I am ready to say goodbye. Perhaps that is a bit selfish of me...but it's the way I feel today.

 

[Jim]

Remember that a good part of the safety of Indy cars, and other race cars, is in the design of the cars themselves, not just the track.

Jim

 

[Paul]

reminds me of my home track, Atco. Total S-hole but you wont find a faster, longer, smoother track on the east coast.

Has Atco installed a sand trap containment system yet for when the Alcohol cars run there? You run through that trap you will be in the middle of the Pine Barrens eating tree bark.

 

[Randy]

again with these ideas people. . please refrain from all your ideas and rants of how to fix this sport. your ideas won't bring back Mark. while your intentions are very noble ,some are grieving at the loss of a loved one.

Hi Bruce. There is another thread for grieving. This one is specifically titled to discuss safety equipment. Two drivers in just a few weeks is two too many, we agree on that. But there needs to be discussion.

 

[Jim]

Has Atco installed a sand trap containment system yet for when the Alcohol cars run there? You run through that trap you will be in the middle of the Pine Barrens eating tree bark.

In the pines, if you take away the trees, you pretty much have sand.

Jim

 

[Super Mod]

100% again Chris.
I am/was assuming that Jack was talking about the racing surface & the shut-down area.

In fact, had a guy almost go thru a section of wooden bleacher just a few spaces away from me today!!! Rotted wood.

I was referring to the facility in general. The shutdown area is no worse than most.
However, Ron Krisher made the comment that the same bumps are on the track now as when he crashed in 2005. The rest of the place looks circa 1980. I think a national event deserves better than this. Compared to Bandimere and LVMS the place is sub-standard.

 

[Gordon]

I've got it Chris, an F16 drop hook.

I assume the rolled eyes are intended to indicate sarcasm, but I'll approach the tailhook issues anyway.

Installing an arresting cable similar to the ones used at Air Stations and aboard aircraft carriers seems, on the surface, like a great idea. The idea being, I suspect, that in addition to NHRA controlling chutes, fuel and ignition, they could also lower an arresting hook at the back of the race car to catch an arresting cable stretched across the track. The problem is the height above the ground that the cable must be in order to be effective.

Air Stations use rubber donuts, spaced evenly across the ruunway to suspend the cable high enough for the arresting hook to catch it, then arresting gear engines pay out cable at a rate that slows the aircraft to a stop in about 1,000 feet.

Aircraft carriers uses metal arches, connected to the flight deck, that are spaced evenly to hold the cable up and again, arresting gear engine pay out cable to stop the aircraft in an even shorter distance - from about 145 kts to zero in about 800 feet.

The primary concern, as I see it, is the cable being two and a half to three inches off the ground - it would tear up most race cars that don't have that kind of clearance. No big deal for the cars that are using it to stop themselves, but for cars that are able to stop without the arresting gear - not good.

I'm not saying it can't be done - anything is possible. But it would be very expensive to maintain and would require a lot of modifications prior to use. All of which is worthwhile if it ends up saving lives.

 

[Speed1288]

In the pines, if you take away the trees, you pretty much have sand.

Jim

Atco's run off is so long I've never seen anyone have a problem. I've only been 190 but I know some top sportsman guys who go 6s at 200 and only throw 1 chute and let it coast comfortably.

 

[Ugly one]

I assume the rolled eyes are intended to indicate sarcasm, but I'll approach the tailhook issues anyway.

Installing an arresting cable similar to the ones used at Air Stations and aboard aircraft carriers seems, on the surface, like a great idea. The idea being, I suspect, that in addition to NHRA controlling chutes, fuel and ignition, they could also lower an arresting hook at the back of the race car to catch an arresting cable stretched across the track. The problem is the height above the ground that the cable must be in order to be effective.

Air Stations use rubber donuts, spaced evenly across the ruunway to suspend the cable high enough for the arresting hook to catch it, then arresting gear engines pay out cable at a rate that slows the aircraft to a stop in about 1,000 feet.

Aircraft carriers uses metal arches, connected to the flight deck, that are spaced evenly to hold the cable up and again, arresting gear engine pay out cable to stop the aircraft in an even shorter distance - from about 145 kts to zero in about 800 feet.

The primary concern, as I see it, is the cable being two and a half to three inches off the ground - it would tear up most race cars that don't have that kind of clearance. No big deal for the cars that are using it to stop themselves, but for cars that are able to stop without the arresting gear - not good.

I'm not saying it can't be done - anything is possible. But it would be very expensive to maintain and would require a lot of modifications prior to use. All of which is worthwhile if it ends up saving lives.

It's amazing that I throw out some smart a$$ed idea and the phone rings off the "hook" (pun intended) today with people wanting to discuss the idea in more detail, so here we go.
1) You'll need a hook. (given)
2) The track needs a cable of some sort. (given)
3) Run by remote control somewhere in the shutdown area (given)
4) Activated by someone from the Safety Safari (i guess)
5) Before you hit the sand (DAH!)
This is where YOU take over, fill in the rest of the ideas.
I would like to say, that whatever the costs for any system that works effectively would by paid for by the first life it saves.
R.I.P. Mark Niver

 

[Gordon]

This is where YOU take over, fill in the rest of the ideas.
I would like to say, that whatever the costs for any system that works effectively would by paid for by the first life it saves.
R.I.P. Mark Niver

Can I assume that when you say "YOU" you're referring to the members of this message board, and not me specifically? I agree that it's a decent idea, in theory, but would require many modifications to be effective. And I also agree, as stated in my post, that it would all be worth it if it did, in fact, work.

 

[mick]

ok - i'll try.
.........arresting wire / tail hook combo; put a groove/s in the
track with the arrestor beneath the track.....hook falls into groove and
grabs arrestor.....if your front tire falls into groove/s, so what, that will help slow too........
put flag in middle of each lane near end of shut down area.
if you're in trouble aim at the
flag, that's the groove with the arresting.....tires straddle groove.
arrestor would not be a cable as it would be beneath track - would have to
be some form of piston / air arrestor - also would have more
than one catch point.....maybe 3-4 catch/hook points over let's say 100'

real solutions; shorten track / move starting line back / lengthen shut down area.......
vehicle accelerates, vehicle decelerates; when using devices to
help accelerate the deceleration over given length; failures will occure.
lengthen the deceleration distance, decrease frequency of parts failure;
be it brakes/chutes/sand/walls/fences/tires/frames/wheels/barriers/etc.

 

[rocketman]

You know my car doesn't run that fast but I pull both chutes every time. The only problem with pulling them is the time it takes to pack them but in my eyes it's never an issue and it only takes about 10 minutes. I see guys running 7 second cars not pulling there chutes and I always wonder why not?

 

[Tim5636sc]

It's amazing that I throw out some smart a$$ed idea and the phone rings off the "hook" (pun intended) today with people wanting to discuss the idea in more detail, so here we go.
1) You'll need a hook. (given)
2) The track needs a cable of some sort. (given)
3) Run by remote control somewhere in the shutdown area (given)
4) Activated by someone from the Safety Safari (i guess)
5) Before you hit the sand (DAH!)
This is where YOU take over, fill in the rest of the ideas.
I would like to say, that whatever the costs for any system that works effectively would by paid for by the first life it saves.
R.I.P. Mark Niver

I called to talk about T-Shirts from STITH PRINTING....;-)

R.I.P Mark Niver....

 

[BrettV]

I've got it Chris, an F drop hook. :roll eyes:

I'm surprised no one else has caught this, but an F16 is an Air Force plane, no tail hook. But we all knew what you meant.

 

[FC138fan]

In school they tought us to use the KISS method of designing things - Keep It Simple Stupid. Some ideas are very complex and would require tons of testing to make them effective.

Maybe find a way to prevent the chutes from breaking off with stronger straps. Or add another single larger chute that is independent from the first set and deployment system to be used in emergencies.

Unfortunately the simplest fix of all is to shorten the distance between start and finish which will probably be the solution of choice. I guess seeing 1000' nitro in person last two years, 1000' alcohol won't be that big a deal since I sit at the start anyway. Although in my opinion in the event of catastrohic failure (not the case in this last incident) 1000' racing is not the solution.

 

[Gordon]

I'm surprised no one else has caught this, but an F16 is an Air Force plane, no tail hook. But we all knew what you meant.

Sorry, Brett, but F-16's do, in fact, have tail hooks. They certainly don't land on aircraft carriers like Navy & Marine Corps jets do, but they use their tail hook on shore based runways during certain emergencies and also during wet runway landings - normally when there's standing water on the deck.

 

[Rollout96]

Sorry, Brett, but F-16's do, in fact, have tail hooks. They certainly don't land on aircraft carriers like Navy & Marine Corps jets do, but they use their tail hook on shore based runways during certain emergencies and also during wet runway landings - normally when there's standing water on the deck.

Like YOU know anything about military planes!

:::: snicker :::: :::: snicker ::::

 

[Gordon]

Like YOU know anything about military planes!

:::: snicker :::: :::: snicker ::::

Maybe a little.

 

[Ugly one]

OK, So all I really know it that planes land on those "BIG BOATS" in the middle of the ocean.

And Gordon this is a homework project for everyone, not just you