Toliver's runaway tire. (1 Viewer)

I thought I heard Mike Dunn say that the drive studs did break off, makes sense to me. The tire and wheel left the car.
 
I'm assuming (or I guess hoping) that the NHRA is working with that team to find out why this happened.

Not having them torqued properly is one potential reason, but if they were torqued properly this just shouldn't happen, unless the studs were undersized or just weren't up to spec.

Nascar requires regular magnafluxing of critical components like this that the crew chief signs off on, I know it sounds like a hassle, but a driver or a spectator could get killed from a tire coming off like that, it was very lucky the car wasn't at full speed yet.

Paul T.
 
Not having them torqued properly is one potential reason, but if they were torqued properly this just shouldn't happen, unless the studs were undersized or just weren't up to spec.

I doubt that they were undersized. Everything on those rear ends is spec.

I would expect that they were either over torqued or they may have been from a batch of material that was not treated properly.
 
I'm assuming (or I guess hoping) that the NHRA is working with that team to find out why this happened.

Not having them torqued properly is one potential reason, but if they were torqued properly this just shouldn't happen, unless the studs were undersized or just weren't up to spec.

Nascar requires regular magnafluxing of critical components like this that the crew chief signs off on, I know it sounds like a hassle, but a driver or a spectator could get killed from a tire coming off like that, it was very lucky the car wasn't at full speed yet.

Paul T.

They torque the studs and the beadlock nuts after every round. It's just like a $1.00 piece breaking for no reason, sometimes the studs just break.

I've seen it before, and NHRA does a full blown report on each and every account that it happens, and they come back to the same conclusion, it just snapped off. When / if 1 goes, the rest follow, it's a physics thing.

No fault to anyone or anything. Guarantee'd everything was torqued properly, it's a standard maintenence proceedure. We do the same on our car (except for the bead locks, we run liners).
 
Not having them torqued properly is one potential reason, but if they were torqued properly this just shouldn't happen, unless the studs were undersized or just weren't up to spec.

It shoudn't happen but it does. If everything worked just like it should, we wouldn't put the drivers in SFI fire retardant suits and helmets to drive them.

I'm glad Jerry did a great job of keeping that car under a reasonable amount of control. My guess would be that grabbing a hand full of brake might be the first reaction but not necesarily the smartest option.

If I'm not mistaken, there is a proper torque sequence and torque spec that's applied and checked every round, which usually includes what I call double torque-ing which basically after you run them the first time, go back and do them one more time.
 
They torque the studs and the beadlock nuts after every round. It's just like a $1.00 piece breaking for no reason, sometimes the studs just break.

No fault to anyone or anything. Guarantee'd everything was torqued properly, it's a standard maintenence proceedure.).

Nancy, I appreciate your input, but for a critical component like this, you can't afford to take the "sometimes it just breaks" approach. Certifying and testing fasteners is an area that is pretty mature thanks to the aerospace industry, and with the correct application of procedures like a careful design review and procedures like magnafluxing it would be possible to make a failure like this extremely unlikely.

A good metallurgist can look at the failed studs and tell you why they failed, over stressed (ie underdesigned, fixable), defective material (fixable through better testing and specifications) or fatigued through overuse (fixable through magnafluxing or similar).

Paul T.
 
I don't think there is a person to be blamed here though.

Mechanical failure is sometimes beyond the realm of control because once the cover is on, you can't tell what's going on until snap crackle POP.

It only takes one weakness to cause an incident because as soon as one thread strips, it takes all the threads and the rest of the supporting bolts down with it.

I think ARP and Stange do a fantastic job of quality control.
 
All kinds of critical components suffer failure, don't they Paul? Like motors?

I'm glad a wheel doesn't make it off too often..in spite of it all.
 
All kinds of critical components suffer failure, don't they Paul? Like motors?

I'm glad a wheel doesn't make it off too often..in spite of it all.

I agree that its not practical to eliminate all parts failures in racing or to totally eliminate the chance of injuries to its drivers.

But on the flip side its irresponsible not to take steps to make bulletproof the critical components that can be made failure proof with some reasonable requirements.

This is one of those cases, its very likely that with some reasonable steps we can make wheel stud failure extremely unlikely.

This isn't shortening the strip or changing the competition in any way, it would just reduce the chance of a driver or spectator getting hurt.

Nascar already has this model in place for its critical chassis components, those must be magnafluxed and replaced when required before every race, and crew chief must sign off on this before the race.

NHRA should find someone qualified to report back why the failure occurred in this case, and make a recommendation on how to avoid any future failures. If the recommendation is reasonable (ie 3" diameter wheel studs won't cut it) it would be foolish not to implement it.

On a different topic, I love Jungle Pam with all my heart. There, I said it.

Paul T.
 
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LOL...I hear ya Paul..on the Jungle Pam thingy.:D

I also understand your opinion on things that go wayward..hey maybe a tire diaper??

I'm glad it wasn't at speed..I wouldn't want a different conversation.
 
Nancy, I appreciate your input, but for a critical component like this, you can't afford to take the "sometimes it just breaks" approach. Certifying and testing fasteners is an area that is pretty mature thanks to the aerospace industry, and with the correct application of procedures like a careful design review and procedures like magnafluxing it would be possible to make a failure like this extremely unlikely.

A good metallurgist can look at the failed studs and tell you why they failed, over stressed (ie underdesigned, fixable), defective material (fixable through better testing and specifications) or fatigued through overuse (fixable through magnafluxing or similar).

Paul T.


Jerry did a great job handling the car and that's the bottom line.


They do test and they do go through everything which is what my point was and still is. It still happens, the last time I remember it happening to a fuel car was Hartley in Houston a few years ago. Same Exact Thing, Almost the Same Exact Spot on the Track. Only difference was that it's a dragster and for whatever reason aero dynamically, it made a left turn on him causing him to kiss the left wall from the right lane. The Cause? The Stud Broke.

NHRA tested it and did all the things you are stating that perhaps they should start doing or may have not thought about, they have. On Hartley's car, The wheel still had all the nuts and the studs attached, NHRA took the Hub, wheel, studs, nuts and a few hours later returned the wheel & hub but kept everything else. All they could come up with as a possiblity, was a hairline crack on the stud (only visible by xray) inside the hub that was not visible to the eye upon normal servicing inspection. Hartley's team did a lot of research on this since they were one of the very few this happened to. (obviously my statement does not include cars involved in some sort of collision, just a wheel coming off during the run for no apparent reason).

All the reports in the world still came to the same conclusion, the stud broke.

Mind you, these guys know what they are doing and have already been there done that on what you are saying and they pay close attention to how many runs, the cause and effect, problem and solution, and track every run detail for every component on the car. Alan Johnson, JFR, Shoe, KB along with NHRA and all the rest of the brain trust out there test and retest. Just because they don't post every result to the public, doesn't mean that safety is not discussed amongst the teams and drivers where it IS the most important, not to spectators or people not within those circles.

There has only been a handful of incident's like this of this kind with the exception of KB trying Titanium studs one time and they sheared off at the hit, but that was a brand new formula that they tried for improvement and it didn't work.

That is all I'm going to say about this subject. Have a great time speculating.
 
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Joe Hartly had the same thing happen a couple years ago at......Houston???

Smoked the tires, sheared the studs, and sent the car over on it's side. Happened to Kenny about 10 years ago also.
 
Couldn't the tires "rattling" a bit on a good run as they transition from slipping to hooking put stress cracks on wheel studs?

There's two incidents on youtube videos that show wheel studs shearing as cars are in midair, I'm guessing from engines locking up and the inertia of the tire and wheel. Seems like something else, like a coupler, should go first. I think there oughta be another weak link.

Dittos again on Jungle Pam, then AND now! ;)
 
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