Richard Freeman in Pro Stock (1 Viewer)

[none]

So, FSS is in the 7's and PS is in the 6.'s
If you were to take the existing FSS engine and put in a PS which is 1000 lbs lighter what would it run??.
1000lbs, 1 second faster?? old rule of thumb 1/10 per 100 lbs.
This is what Alan Johnson suggested so at least there would be a reasonable resemblance to "stock".

Ken,
I guess it depends on which part of "Stock" is most important to you. The Factory Stock cars connect with the fans because of how they look, a fan can see one and think, "That's just like my car" The Pro Stock and Factory Stock engines are closer in output than most people would believe. but what's most important, the car or the engine?

As Always, this is just my opinion.

Alan

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

For me personally, I just think it's time to move on. And when I say that, I don't necessarily mean to imply that "moving on" means get rid of the current Pro Stock class altogether. Like I said, if the class can support itself through sponsorship, fan interest and what I should've added earlier (enough brazillionaires) then let them. The class showcases a tremendous amount of innovation and savvy when you consider what they do.

FSS, like it or not, is the new Pro Stock, whether it's branded as such or not. I believe you move forward with this platform, brand it Pro Stock and usher in a new era. There will be many that will say that these guys, like the Pro Mod guys can't or won't run that many events, but that's okay! Giving the class Pro status doesn't necessarily mean they should just have to be a part of all the races by default. It's time to learn something. And what we've learned over the past year or two is more and more teams are citing the operational and travel costs as being the major factors in the balance sheet issues year-to-year. If that's the case, then cut back on the races..............for all classes. If that's what's needed to inject a little life and health back into the sport, then again, let's learn something and do it. But as for FSS, they need to be elevated to the highest status possible to not only give the manufacturers an arena to showcase their stuff, but to remain interested in our sport. Then, as has been discussed before, the onus will be on the NHRA to keep what has happened to the current Pro Stock platform from happening to FSS. KEEP them running factory combinations and bodies. KEEP them on a small tire. This class absolutely DOES NOT NEED to evolve to mid 6-second, 210 Mph machines to remain interesting. Especially on a small tire. They're never going to be "affordable" to run for the average joe, but there's no reason for them to evolve to a class where the aforementioned brazillioinaires are the select few able to run them. Especially if they're mandating the competitors run factory offered combinations, which literally change seemingly as much as one changes socks. There's certainly some middle ground in there somewhere.

Just my .02

Sean D

 

[twostep]

Back to Freeman....glad to see another face (and a Mustang) on the track, although Freeman isn't exactly new to PS. Rolled my eyes at his .160 light against Erica, but oh well. Wasn't unexpected. The vast majority of fans have no idea what a DRCE engine is and that one is under the hood of Freeman's car, so no problem there.

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

Back to Freeman....glad to see another face (and a Mustang) on the track, although Freeman isn't exactly new to PS. Rolled my eyes at his .160 light against Erica, but oh well. Wasn't unexpected. The vast majority of fans have no idea what a DRCE engine is and that one is under the hood of Freeman's car, so no problem there.

Ferri pretty much spelled it out for everybody, including myself over on the Bullet that there's really no reason to get caught up in GM this, Ford that, Mopar this when it comes to modern day Pro Stock......... He said that these engines have evolved to a point where they embody the best of what each combination has offered over the years, along with what the engine builders themselves have been able to design to work well in this platform, and that if they were all spread out in pieces side-by-side, the vast majority of people wouldn't even know what they were in regards to any of the Big 3 manufacturers.

That said, I say bring on whatever bodies seem to work well. It will help the class from an aesthetic standpoint not watching all the same stuff go down the track.

Sean D

 

[TooTall999]

Back to Freeman....glad to see another face (and a Mustang) on the track, although Freeman isn't exactly new to PS. Rolled my eyes at his .160 light against Erica, but oh well. Wasn't unexpected. The vast majority of fans have no idea what a DRCE engine is and that one is under the hood of Freeman's car, so no problem there.

His .160 light would normally be suspect, except he had a .198 light in the previous round.

 

[MHayes]

His .160 light would normally be suspect, except he had a .198 light in the previous round.

Subtract a tenth.

 

[TooTall999]

Subtract a tenth.

My bad, I thought they said .198 on tv.

 

[ironpony]

Ken,
I guess it depends on which part of "Stock" is most important to you. The Factory Stock cars connect with the fans because of how they look, a fan can see one and think, "That's just like my car" The Pro Stock and Factory Stock engines are closer in output than most people would believe. but what's most important, the car or the engine?

As Always, this is just my opinion.

Alan

My thought process back when AJ brought this up was to keep all 3 manufacturers involved. Now we have FSS the best of both worlds. Cars look like what are on the lot with the available power plants.

 

[Cliff]

What is really cool about FSS is that they have supercharged engines. You watch them come to the line, and you hear the engine, whomp, whomp, whomp as the idles up to stage. THAT is what I like about the class. Yes, it does remind me of the old A/gas Supercharged cars from years ago. There is nothing like a door car with a blown motor....

 

[Dave]

I thought the car looked beautiful in person and made some really great runs. By my highly unofficial record keeping, that was the first time a Ford had been in round 2 in Pro Stock since the 2014 Winternationals....... Quite the dry spell. If Alan Reinhart is right in his hinting that Erica could be taking the wheel, then we might get to see the first blue oval win since 1995!

 

[ironpony]

Mustang with a Chevy engine, seems to be a common theme.

 

[camaro]

sounded like freeman was kinda showcasing the ride for sale to any takers. they should also build and race a dodge to make amends for that disastrous year they had in 2016 with mopar

 

[Crash]

I thought the car looked beautiful in person and made some really great runs. By my highly unofficial record keeping, that was the first time a Ford had been in round 2 in Pro Stock since the 2014 Winternationals....... Quite the dry spell. If Alan Reinhart is right in his hinting that Erica could be taking the wheel, then we might get to see the first blue oval win since 1995!

See, to me, it's not a Ford any more than Force's old Funny Cars were Fords. It's just an off-pace funny car sponsored by Ford. May as well call it a Hyundai. I love the tech, I think the drivers and crews are amazing, but let's stop the charade of saying they are Chevy or Ford or whatever. They're just "cars"

 

[Crash]

See, to me, it's not a Ford any more than Force's old Funny Cars were Fords. It's just an off-pace funny car sponsored by Ford. May as well call it a Hyundai. I love the tech, I think the drivers and crews are amazing, but let's stop the charade of saying they are Chevy or Ford or whatever. They're just "cars"

Sponsored is the wrong word..."Ford bodied" or "wearing a Ford-ish body" may be a better choice.

 

[ironpony]

See, to me, it's not a Ford any more than Force's old Funny Cars were Fords. It's just an off-pace funny car sponsored by Ford. May as well call it a Hyundai. I love the tech, I think the drivers and crews are amazing, but let's stop the charade of saying they are Chevy or Ford or whatever. They're just "cars"

powered by Chrysler based HEMI's ..........FACT.

 

[TooTall999]

At this point it really doesn't matter what body they put on it. Let's just call the class Pro Replica.

 

[Bob K.]

Yeah, I wanna see this thing run, even if it is a Treason Ford (cuz it has a Chevy in it).

The "Chevy" engines used in todays Pro Stock engines don't even resemble a big block Chevy any more. They are based on the "Olds" engine designed by
Warren Johnson. Actually Ford and Mopar in years past used an almost identical engine. (The Ford 460 was designed with splayed valves copying the big
block Chevy and the Mopars used a similar engine until around 2001 when the Daimler Benz group designed the "Hemi" which just had the valves splayed
farther apart and the spark plug down the center of the combustion chamber. The Mopar "hemi" is not as competitive now with the rev limiter and the
mandated fuel injection. (The intake port is so short that it is really hard to equalize the runners with the Fuel injection.) I watched Alan Johnson testing
here in Las Vegas before the change to fuel injection and he was really spinning that engine hard! It screamed! So I, for one think this change is great
to get different cars out there. It's just too bad that they get no factory support. After all Ford could call their engines "Boss 500" Mopar "Semi Hemi?"
Just my thoughts. Love the competition in Pro Stock. They are the most technical marvels in drag racing. Loved seeing Elite's Mustang!

 

[FABMAN]

truth is I do/did/do love PS but if they are going to allow this they need to be named Pro Door Car or something. Stock should not be in the class name. NA FC maybe.
FSS is much better but at the rate they are progressing it won't be long before it is out of control also.
FC is just that FUNNY.

I was planning on running a 500 BA Hemi and putting VC that say BOSS 500

 

[SoCal Racer]

<snip> FSS, like it or not, is the new Pro Stock, whether it's branded as such or not. I believe you move forward with this platform, brand it Pro Stock and usher in a new era. <snip> But as for FSS, they need to be elevated to the highest status possible to not only give the manufacturers an arena to showcase their stuff, but to remain interested in our sport. <snip> KEEP them running factory combinations and bodies. KEEP them on a small tire. This class absolutely DOES NOT NEED to evolve to mid 6-second, 210 Mph machines to remain interesting.
Sean D

My thought process back when AJ brought this up was to keep all 3 manufacturers involved. Now we have FSS the best of both worlds. Cars look like what are on the lot with the available power plants.

Sean highlights a lot of good points, and Ken is succinct and right on with the classic definition of what Pro Stock is - or was - or should be. I believe these comments are the keys to the future of Pro Stock. Alan asks, "what's most important, the engine or the car?" I think to most door car fans the answer is both. To add to their comments, keeping FSS pure will require NHRA mandating that cars need to remain a factory body with a roll cage and suspension installed, not a tube chassis with a replica body hung on it.

I get Freeman's argument that the evolution of of PS engines has resulted in a lot of commonality between modern Pro Stock powerplants, and how none of them truly resemble anything from manufacturers. But this is exactly why the manufacturers have no interest in them, and exactly why these cars belong in Competition Eliminator; a class where brilliant minds have developed the most sophisticated special-special engines in the sport. Sure the average "circus" fan has no idea what's under the hood, but any self-respecting car guy worth his salt knows the difference and the "almost the same" argument won't fly as long as there are nuances that distinguish them. Sadly, we live in an era where the average fan knows less about engine technology than ever - it's all black box to them.

NHRA is in a conundrum as they need some classes other than nitro to round out the TV package, which is their primary concern. I'm finding I really don't mind events without Pro Stock and think filling that spot with FSS would be welcome. The FSS cars are far more exciting to watch. Sure, they're a little slower than PS, but PS all look exactly the same from end to end, and that's just boring. Someone once said, "Variety is the spice of life!"

 

[dr flames]

If we all liked the same thing we would be driving electronically fuel injected, antilock brake model A’s that would be painted black, it is not good for any manufacture to totally dominate a stock class, be it SS, FACTORY FSS OR PRO (STOCK) for me anyway