OUTRAGE over Amnesty Deal (1 Viewer)

Let's see...which am I MORE sick of- Politicians as a majority getting together to colectively put their hands up and admit that this problem CAN'T be fixed just short of a "way-back" machine, and they just come up with a plan to START to plug the leak and get a handle on the problem

OR

Everybody continue to sit on their fat asses and DO NOTHING and then 5 years from now the number of illegals is double??

Sorry- the fact that they have done ANYTHING AT ALL is, at this point and with this group of numbnuts, just the best I can expect anymore..:( :mad:
 
This is what gets me the most upset about the illegal alien problem. Congress saying that the problem is too big to fix. We are the United States for God's sake! We put a man on the moon less than 10 years after President Kennedy challenged us to do it.


We can do damn near anything we set our minds to it, but we have to have the will to do it. I don't see the current batch of political whores in Washington being invested in the process of fixing the mess that they allowed to happen on their watch. They failed to do their jobs and we are stuck with the consequences of their failure. Where I work, if I fail to do my job, I will get fired. It's time we fire the entire lot of the bastards in Washington for their lack of performance. Next election do not vote for any incumbents. Vote this band of liars and thieves out and replace them with people who put Americans and America's interests ahead of their own misplaced loyaltys.

Let's see...which am I MORE sick of- Politicians as a majority getting together to colectively put their hands up and admit that this problem CAN'T be fixed just short of a "way-back" machine, and they just come up with a plan to START to plug the leak and get a handle on the problem
 
Exactly. How many countries could I just walk in and set up home in without any papers and just live there the rest of my life? How about we protect our southern border only as well as Mexico protects IT'S southern border (because every South and Central American who makes it through will be competition for dollars being sent back home.) Mexico calls us racists if we only want to do what they already do.
 
This is what gets me the most upset about the illegal alien problem. Congress saying that the problem is too big to fix. We are the United States for God's sake! We put a man on the moon less than 10 years after President Kennedy challenged us to do it.


We can do damn near anything we set our minds to it, but we have to have the will to do it. I don't see the current batch of political whores in Washington being invested in the process of fixing the mess that they allowed to happen on their watch. They failed to do their jobs and we are stuck with the consequences of their failure. Where I work, if I fail to do my job, I will get fired. It's time we fire the entire lot of the bastards in Washington for their lack of performance. Next election do not vote for any incumbents. Vote this band of liars and thieves out and replace them with people who put Americans and America's interests ahead of their own misplaced loyaltys.


That's all well and good, but I think "their watch" has been going on for decades, and it has existed long before some of these representitives got into office.. The issue is who these representitives listen to when they decide to think about laws. I think A LOT of them are thinking that 12 million plus folks are on the verge of getting the chance to vote, especially since that same 12 million have already proved that they can affect American policy and laws to their own advantage. The bigger issue is that we seem to have a problem getting 12 million AMERICAN voters to get out there to cancel that vote...

BTW- Thousands of Mexican troops have been dispached to the Arizona/Mexico border today because of unrest in the northern state of Sonora Mexico. Seems some local bandidtos have caused a bit of a ruckus in Naco, shooting locals, cops and troops in the area...:eek:
 
Add to that the new head of the drug enforcement appointed to shake up things was killed Soprano style even though he travels with a large security detachment.
Mexico is a country on the verge of anarchy and when it blows we will be looking at millions of women children and seniors crossing our border.

Will we just shoot them ?
I still feel without changing the corrupt bureaucrats and the corrupt Judicial system ain't nothing gonna work and all the money going down there 10 per cent of their economy we are providing plus whatever our Gov. gives has been for thirty years a stopgap measure to prevent mass exodus northwards.
Our Drug habit is affecting their law enforcement ability.
Hell's the new army vehicles we gave them to keep people from crossing the border are for hire to escort armed drug runners and no telling what else across the border.
The money we gave to advertise for Mexicans to stay home and not come here was converted into cassettes teaching how to survive and prosper over here and maps of preferred crossings.
I have lived in New Mexico and Texas all my life and the only thing that makes sense is Annex Mexico .
At the end of the day it's in everyone's best interests and the Mexicans vote every night.
It would take a lot of band width to give the positives and one paragraph for the negatives.
At least before they give away the store [ we are scheduled for Hispanic rule shortly in the south and California ] and several other states will follow and the whole enchilada by 2050.
Why not integrate now and use the wasted money going to corrupt bureauracracy to give them the better life where they live.
I know we can't do it cause it makes too much sense but could we at least explore the possibilitys.
 
A VERY loud and strong message needs to be sent, and resent to our 'representatives' in Washington. American Governement is one 'of the People, by the People and for the People' of the United States of America.

Our very system of government was fashioned after the 6 Nations (Iroquois) form of government. At the time Europeans first arrived in North America, the Confederacy was based in what is now the northeastern United States and southern Canada, including New England, upstate New York, and Pennsylvania, Ontario, and Quebec, a very large expanse of land. Each nation spoke it's own language, had their own jurisdiction, but came undr the Confederacy. At least once a year, representatives were selected to go to a meeting place to discuss what was going on in their area, decide on laws which protected and benefited all of the Confederacy, brought the concerns, needs, and will of the people to be discussed with the members of the other territories. Starting to sound familiar yet?

It is a good system of government, as long as THE PEOPLE maintain control of what is happening in their 'territory' or 'confederacy'. Once those who are selected to go to that place to meet with others who were selected, begin to be in control, government falls apart. When Special interest groups have more clout on issues, then the millions of people who selected these officials to represent them, it is time for THE PEOPLE to rise up and remind them that they are sent there to represent them, not special interest.

The vast marjority of Americans have become content with being fat, dumb and happy and ignoring what is going on in Washington. When something finally blows, it gets their attention and they complain loudly and endlessly about 'those politicians'... yet remain silent when it comes to voicing their complaints with those very people.

Call me the stupidest person who ever walked the face of this earth if it makes you feel better about not getting involved. That is everyone's choice. I refuse to believe that things cannot be changed by speaking out against what is so very obviously wrong with what is going on with just this one issue of ILLEGAL people demanding the same rights and privileges as American Citizens and people who came to this country for a better life, who respected it, its laws and it's citizens enough to do so legally.

At no time in recent history has it be easier to let your voice be heard in Washington, then it is now. It is MINDLESSLY easy to do so, and I have continued to provide links and website information which will allow anyone to do so. Trust me, the 'pro illegal aliens' are doing that very thing... that is why things are turning out as they are.

If Americans chose to remain, fat dumb & happy, that is of course, their right to do so. However, if those who wish to lift a finger and place it on a keyboard or mouse and chose to fight back, it has never, ever been easier then it is in this day of the internet.

Once again, I will supply some links to groups & organizations with whom anyone can register, check off their interests and level of activity. Based on that, you will receive email alerts as those interests come up. In those alerts, will be requests to email, fax or phone YOUR representatives in Washington, to let them know how YOU feel about the issue. Links to your representative's email and faxes are provided in the alerts, along with prewritten statements from which you may chose to send to them, if you do not wish to compose your own. Click on 'send' or 'submit' and you're done for crying out loud. Other alerts will be petitions, which will be HAND DELIVERED to the parties concerned.

Or, you may CHOOSE to sit back and do nothing because 'it won't do any good'. If that IS your choice, please at least give thanks every day for the men and women who have died fighting for your right to do nothing but complain.

Sorry if this offends anyone. Think of me what you wish. We are at the crossroads of some major situations facing America, from the threat of Global terrorism, to the further invasion of and legalization of those who have so little respect for this country and our laws that they think that being a 'good person and a hard worker who just wants to make a better life for themselves' makes them exempt from obeying our laws.

These grassroot groups and organizations HAVE accomplished much. SO MUCH, that a couple of Democrats drafted a bill to prevent them from sending out the alerts to their members for them to take action. Thankfully, this is still a country that understands that every citizen has the right to be heard, and this bill was recently turned down. But the special interest groups WILL resurrect it again and again.

America has provided a very good life for the majority of her citizens. I hope and pray that all of those very citizens will understand that we enjoy rights and privileges that few countries enjoy. And the repayment for those rights, will sometimes demand that we GET INVOLVED so that we can keep them.

Your choice.

Here are some sites... I don't want to provide a direct links because I dont' want to have to log out of all of these groups so that you can go into the general home page.

You can google for the home pages and sign up (I receive NO unsolicited email from any of these groups, and in each alert, there is a link to your preferences so that you can change them at any time you wish, add to them, delete some of them, or change your level of activism.

NumbersUSA dot com

minuteman civil defense or minutemen border patrol

GOPUSA (I am not a Republican, but a registered Independant who is decidedly a Conservative, so the GOP website represents a many of my interests)

American Family Association.

My Notes is down at the present time, so I cannot check for more groups. Once my email is back up, I will post more

If I did not see progress on the issues I have selected in my resgistration, I would not waste my times with any of these groups. "I'm just one person" just doesn't hold up ... because there are thousands of other people saying the same damned thing. When all of those people join TOGETHER, things happen, and stuff changes. But you have to get involved.

Remember, you can decide to let your voice be heard, or be defeated without even trying. It's your choice. Thankfully, our forefathers chose to act.

End of rant..... (for now) :)
 
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Jackie...Our biggest issue with the whole "rise up and be counted as One to defeat the Special Interst groups" is that WE BECOME A SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP.

Take this place for example. Here we all stand as one- love drag racing. Some more than otheres, but we all have a common voice. We would all be against Crusher Laws, all be in favor of telling folks that move close to existing racetracks "Tough cookies".. But within our own group we have different opinions on the Death Penalty, Gun Control, Fuel Pricing regulation, Global Warming and the list goes on.. So much so that our little group of a couple of thousand members is split into small factions of hundreds or even dozens- not much of a voice anymore from the "big" punch of 2000.

That is what the problem here is in the States, and we are competing against 12 MILLION Illegal Immigrants that DO stand up for the one thing they have in common.. and they seem to be getting their voice across, as the recent pending legislation shows.

There isn't one binding thread among all AMERICANS anymore- even terrorism is being looked at with a wary eye by a growing amount of citizens since the discovery of incompetence by our elected officials to recognize the truth from the bullsh!t... Until we can get ONE general consensus running through the ENTIRE country about something that is important (Hell, we can't even get everyone to agree to send that Hilton chick to jail), the ability to convince Congressmen and Senators NOT to pay attention to an active majority (like I said earlier, that will soon be 12 million new voters) is gonna be a tough road to hoe...
 
the ability to convince Congressmen and Senators NOT to pay attention to an active majority (like I said earlier, that will soon be 12 million new voters) is gonna be a tough road to hoe...

Have you registered with these groups to let YOUR voice be heard?

Have the people in your circle done so as well, and theirs?

There is NO BETTER WAY for this Amnesty to happen, then for the silent majority to remain so.

Then, they'll say... see what I mean? I told you it wouldn't work.

Bull crap!
 
My circles run from people like you (Conservative) to people like the aforementioned Hilton chick (brainless)... Some are deep into the process, some have no clue, so my "circle" is one of multiple people all going in different directions. I have friends that ARE Minutemen down here on the AZ border, and others that wage war on companies that are heavy industrial polluters...

My personal beliefs are such that I do participate, in an organized fashion, on some concerns- so, yes, I do make my voice heard through official channels. The point I was making is that even with the say of me and those like me, WE are a small voice in a mass of other small voices, trying to compete against the bigger mass- that now being people that are not citizens making our leaders stand up and take notice of THEIR needs and wants.

Will I join organizations that you belong to? Probably not, since we don't see eye to eye on the details of the issues. Do we have the same overall belief? Probably so, but the Devil is in the details....
 
My circles run from people like you (Conservative) to people like the aforementioned Hilton chick (brainless)... Some are deep into the process, some have no clue, so my "circle" is one of multiple people all going in different directions. I have friends that ARE Minutemen down here on the AZ border, and others that wage war on companies that are heavy industrial polluters...

My personal beliefs are such that I do participate, in an organized fashion, on some concerns- so, yes, I do make my voice heard through official channels. The point I was making is that even with the say of me and those like me, WE are a small voice in a mass of other small voices, trying to compete against the bigger mass- that now being people that are not citizens making our leaders stand up and take notice of THEIR needs and wants.

Will I join organizations that you belong to? Probably not, since we don't see eye to eye on the details of the issues. Do we have the same overall belief? Probably so, but the Devil is in the details....

Sorry Martin... excuses. EVERYONE's 'circle' goes in every direction.

And MY point is that on THIS particular issue... illegal aliens being rewarded with amnesty, everyone I come into contact with.... in and out of my circle of MANY differing views, is in agreement.... it is not right. Some are content to complain ad nauseum, without doing one single thing to prevent it, some 'clueless' people, have been motivated to get a clue, and some of those will be motivated to get involved, and in spite of being on different sides of the fence on other issues, everyone I come in to contact with is against illegal immigration. So that is a LOT of people. And if everyone who was against this travisty against every legal immigrant and all American citizens registered with these groups, and participated, things WOULD change.

To have an a strong opinion on any issue is nothing more then being lazy if a person is not willing to act on it to affect change, when the tools are laid literally at their fingertips. Without any doubt, they lose my respect and the right to fill my ears with their complaints about 'the way things are in this country', if they do not.

If you don't see 'eye to eye with me on the details of the issues', then why the heck are you trying to prove any point to me at all? All of my input into this issue, is directed to people who are in agreement about ILLEGAL immigration and AMNESTY and that if they think it is wrong, they should DO something about it instead of complaining about it. Period. I'm not trying to convince anyone to see things "my way." I'm trying to convince people who already do see things the way I do.... and, for the record that is that rewarding law breakers is WRONG...... to GET INVOLVED instead of complaining about it. THAT is the only way to change anything. God knows that the vocal minority is doing just that and they're getting their way. If the silent majority acted instead of complaining, things would change.

(For the record, I chase the Devil with the blood of Jesus Christ. He's not in any of my details. )

End of case for me. I've given anyone who is interested in being part of the solution to this problem, the tools with which to do so. The choice is up to each them.
 
I live in Tucson, Jackee... Some are AGAINST this proposed legislation, some are FOR it (mostly business owners), some are clergy that believe in sanctuary for those looking for a better life here, some are the previously mentioned Minutemen that are tired of having their ranches trashed and robbed by hordes of thousands crossing their property every month, some are the subject matter themselves... Here on the front line, you get it all- it makes it not so black-and-white when you have friends in every aspect of the fight. Intelligence allows one to listen to all aspects and make a decision as to where they stand.

"The choice is up to each them."
 
As I said Jackee I agree in principal and will participate but I still take the long term view that what will be will be whether sooner or later.
As I said they don't abort their voters.
I would take it farther and say Mexico would be a gift that keeps on giving and we will have to deal with a much larger exodus in the not too distant future.
Our southern border is an Achilles Heel and that won't change !
 
I see we are getting dueling posts again .
I stand by the above but another argument is the est. $ 17,000 in services granted if this bill goes through.
The argument is well they will now pay their fair share!
Just how much do they think an uneducated worker makes in a year!
You take 17,000 away and they won't be able to buy a hamburger with it.
Then there's the Earned Income Credit Tax rebate.
Likely around $ 6,000 a worker , is that part of the $ 17,000 or in addition?
I knew very well about 1986 cause I was living in South Texas at the time.
That was the beginning of the push northward as it became apparent we would do nothing.
Not long after that we just quit looking for them and the companies proved that they were not trained to determine forged documents so that enforcement went down the tubes.
Another Amnesty in 1994.
Another for Haitians in 1997
Another in 1999 for someone else.
Something in the neighborhood of 2 million since 1986's 1.5 million.
Our Leaders on both sides are taking the view of corporate raiders it seems.
You buy a company , get as much out of it as you can ,then sell off the assets.
Another argument is the average age of an Illeagal workers is 25 years old so they will pay into the SS fund a long time before they collect.
Is that before the $ 17,000 or after ?
SS ain't gonna matter when the rest of the government is broke cause when the down turn comes in the economy [ and it will ] guess who will join the unemployment rolls along with welfare first.
I warn if we are successful at cutting off the workers from working at least temporary without Mexico cleaning up it's corruption and drug cartels running the borders and the western half of Mexico there will be anarchy there and a mass exodus across our border.
Actually it's collapse is going to happen anyway without annexation or intervention and reform with our help and at some point the cartels who's new business is smuggling South Americans through Guatemala buying off Mexican army assits to get them across not only across the southern border but the US border too .
If they are carrying a backpack full of cocaine or Heroin so much the better.
Seems our drug habits are doing a lot of damage and killing a lot of people south of the border.
You want to know another group who have a drug problem and are keeping it a secret!
The Chinese have a head for drugs!
Should have known cause the China trade in the Kennedy/Kerry and others family background from the 1800's was a keyword for dope smuggling.
I guess everyone Knows about the dope /sex/aids thing in Russia with 1.5 million aids infected in greater Russia.
I'll pray for whoever gets the nod for president next year cause he and the rest of us is gonna need it.
Rome got lazy and split ideologically and fell.
I smell smoke!
 
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Jackee..when you are right, you do it with a splash...:)

Cover lead story on the New York Sunday Times leads with "Grass Roots Roared, and an Immigration Plan Fell"... I guess the power of what you spoke of earlier is actually still heard by D.C.... Good call.
 
Jackee..when you are right, you do it with a splash...:)

Cover lead story on the New York Sunday Times leads with "Grass Roots Roared, and an Immigration Plan Fell"... I guess the power of what you spoke of earlier is actually still heard by D.C.... Good call.

Thanks Martin. The only sure way for nothing to change, is to do nothing.
This is NOT over, by any means. They're not going to give up so easily.... so be prepared for more threads from me, asking people to get involved, to DO something. One person CAN make a difference, because there are a lot of people who are 'just one person'. And together, we all stopped this travesty to all Americans.... for now.
 
I don't believe there is a need to call the President of the United States of America names. He is being a politician, just like the Senators and Congressmen who support this bill. Looking at a large influx of voters for "the party."

Just as he will continue to persuade our representatives to support this bill, we, the people, need to continue to persuade them NOT to, now that we have gotten their attention. Gotta keep up the pressure.
 
I don't believe there is a need to call the President of the United States of America names. He is being a politician, just like the Senators and Congressmen who support this bill. Looking at a large influx of voters for "the party."
I was a strong supporter of Bush in 2000. I still support his decision to stay in Iraq until there is a stable democracy in place run by a legitimate Iraqi government.

He lost my support and respect and deserves the "turncoat" title when he failed to live up to the oath of his office to enforce our immigration laws to protect this Nation from the foreign invasion that has increased on his watch. The fact that he is doing this to bring in a large influx of voters for "the party." proves he is a turncoat who is willing to sell out the legal citizens of the Untied States for votes.


I still respect the Office of the President, but I no longer respect the man who holds that office.

b.t.w, while I consider myself to be a strict conservative, I am not a member of the republican party. I am registered Independent and vote on the character of the candidate rather than follow the party line.
 
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