Lack of track prep (2 Viewers)

[Topfuel386]

I understand the new track prep increases my opportunity to win rounds but I am not 100% on board with it.

I have to also disagree that retooling isn't needed. With the current state of parts and their design more often than not these cars won't survive when pedaled. So to make them survive retooling is needed. I know of one championship team that is starting to do that with different cam grinds (back to the old days), clutches, and fuel pump size to give the motor a chance to survive the pedal job. Over the last 2yrs I spent a lot of money to build the right parts inventory to try and become a mid to high 70 car when I had a really consistent mid to high 80 car that was worker friendly and would survive a pedal job.

 

[none]

I was at Joliet when Doug Kalitta went 4.42 and I was there Sunday to watch whatever that was. I’ll take the 4.42. Really don’t care about the fuel cars as long as they do this. Alcohol cars now putting on a better show. That, however doesn’t justify a 64.00 GA ticket. My guess is the stands will only get more empty. And I really hope someone doesn’t get hurt.

 

[SundayNiagara]

Smoke/Pedal fests ARE NOT drag racing.

 

[Gordon]

In my humble opinion the issue is multi-faceted and goes way beyond just what the two fuel categories are doing.

There is a limit to just how quick and fast a car can go over the course of 1,000'. Some amount of time will always exist for an automobile to get from the starting line to the finish line, and the smaller the number gets in terms of E.T., the more difficult it is to improve. And even then, the cost of doing so can, and frankly already has, spiral out of control, especially for the independent teams. Changing the way the track is prepped balances the playing field for everyone equally. As Mr. Hartman explained in an earlier post, once the crew chiefs and drivers put their egos away, we should see competitive, side-by-side racing more frequently and the E.T.'s won't be quite as important. You may not believe it, but side by side racing is awesome... even if they're only going 3.85 instead of 3.75.

I see Kyle's post (#21) and he makes a valid argument, but I think the point is that an inventory of parts designed to get a fuel car into the 70's on a track that can only handle 80's is useless for everyone, not just the independent teams.

Another piece is in reference to the alcohol classes. As they continue to develop and improve, they may begin to encroach on the two fuel classes. No, they're not quite there yet, I get it, but they are performing better than the fuel cars of the 80's were, so it's not beyond the realm of possibility that they can get there, especially given how difficult it is to find performance improvements in the fuel classes... which has recently been exacerbated by the new approach to track prep. Do fans lose interest in the fuel categories because TAD/AFD/TAFC have closed the gap? I doubt it, but it is a consideration for management (or it should be) when trying to balance the categories (and the entertainment value) based on performance rather than just sound and fury.

The last piece is the insurance. Sure, we'd all love to see fuel cars rotate the earth and continue to get closer to a 2.50 E.T., but a quick glance at history shows just how painful it is to lose our heroes in racing tragedies. There is risk that comes with the thrill, and every racer who straps into a race car, regardless of class, accepts that risk. But insurance companies have to manage that risk for all concerned parties and if they're being told by Goodyear, or track managers, or whoever, that we're at and sometimes beyond the limit that's reasonably acceptable then they have a responsibility to say something.

 

[none]

Smoke/Pedal fests ARE NOT drag racing.

Thank you

 

[Huge]

Smoke/Pedal fests ARE NOT drag racing.

You would really hate the old days then.

 

[mikebcurve]

You would really hate the old days then.

Are you taking about tires smoking the whole run or loss of traction? I didn't have an issue with the first because they were accelerating and not pedaling. I don't care for comparisons to the old days because they are too different to make a valid argument.

 

[RM FAN]

Are you taking about tires smoking the whole run or loss of traction? I didn't have an issue with the first because they were accelerating and not pedaling. I don't care for comparisons to the old days because they are too different to make a valid argument.

the point is they smoked the tires the whole way which is a loss of traction. You are right different time back then but for the sport to survive this change had to be made. It will take some time but the crew chiefs will figure out and make clean runs. Maybe this no prep racing is starting to catch on.

 

[TooTall999]

Who else remembers the old match racing days when the nations best fuel cars showed up at a local no prep track and proceeded to wow the crowds? I grew up near Connecticut Dragway and got to watch some of the best funny car and top fuel runners battle it out in the 70's. Did we care that the cars weren't running record numbers? HELL NO! We were there for the long smokey burnouts, the sound and the fury that only fuel cars can deliver. I think reducing the glue was exactly what NHRA needed to do. It gives all the teams the same track to tune to. So now the mega- funded drivers are whining, but the lower powered/ funded teams are becoming more competitive? Great! It's called parity and reducing the track prep was the only good way to bring it.

 

[Jack]

I actually agree with most of David Keech's post. But do you believe that the big dollar sponsors like Matco, Mac Tools, the Army etc be happy that their multi million dollar funded cars are now on "parity" with with the low buck teams? Me thinks probably not. There is a reason they spend the money that they do and its not to run neck and neck with the smaller, less funded reams.

 

[Huge]

Are you taking about tires smoking the whole run or loss of traction? I didn't have an issue with the first because they were accelerating and not pedaling. I don't care for comparisons to the old days because they are too different to make a valid argument.

I'm just the opposite I would rather see a good pedal fest then watch 2 cars smoke the tires all the way down the track.

 

[Huge]

I actually agree with most of David Keech's post. But do you believe that the big dollar sponsors like Matco, Mac Tools, the Army etc be happy that their multi million dollar funded cars are now on "parity" with with the low buck teams? Me thinks probably not. There is a reason they spend the money that they do and its not to run neck and neck with the smaller, less funded reams.

The big sponsored teams are still winning. Winners in Atlanta-- DSR and JFR, Topeka-- Stringer Performance and JFR, Joliet--Stringer Performance and JFR.

 

[my friends call me Zappy]

The change in track prep has just about turned me completely off from the big show. To me drag racing is about big numbers on the scoreboard. I have always been a swing for the fence guy when running cars and watching FC's for the most part running low 4's doesn't excite me at all. I have to believe it is responsible for a fair amount of the carnage we are seeing. 100 plus gallons and tire spinning doesn't make for a happy engine.

I couldn't agree more. I understand the need to slow them down, but putting them on an unsafe race track is not the answer. I'm a diehard, lifelong fan of drag racing, but i'm not paying good money to see a bunch of smoke outs. I don't care if they run 3.85, or 6 flat, as long as they are power on from stripe to stripe. To not make the finish line is, imo, a failed attempt. Just like a strike out, or gutter ball. I have RT 66 in my back yard, and Norwalk in my front yard, I skipped them both this year. How much longer is nhra gonna beat this dead horse? Just slow the cars to what you want, simple, but give a safe surface, and less carnage.

 

[TooTall999]

I couldn't agree more. I understand the need to slow them down, but putting them on an unsafe race track is not the answer. I'm a diehard, lifelong fan of drag racing, but i'm not paying good money to see a bunch of smoke outs. I don't care if they run 3.85, or 6 flat, as long as they are power on from stripe to stripe. To not make the finish line is, imo, a failed attempt. Just like a strike out, or gutter ball. I have RT 66 in my back yard, and Norwalk in my front yard, I skipped them both this year. How much longer is nhra gonna beat this dead horse? Just slow the cars to what you want, simple, but give a safe surface, and less carnage.

The surface is safe. The tuners have to back the cars down. It's not like they eliminated the glue. They went from a 75/25 glue/ alcohol mix to 65/35. The move was supported by team owners and the PRO. The only ones whining are DSR drivers, Tommy Johnson and Matt Hagan. With a little less glue, the drivers actually have to drive! Maybe they need to install a more progressive throttle instead of the current on/off 1/2 - 1/4 inch travel throttle pedals. Give it a chance or go watch IHRA...oh wait there is no pro racing in IHRA...

 

[RM FAN]

How much longer is nhra gonna beat this dead horse? Just slow the cars to what you want, simple, but give a safe surface, and less carnage.[/QUOTE]

The NHRA did slow them down with less prep. Its up to the tuners to make them not blow up. And forget about big numbers on the board those days are gone unless fuel cars are completely changed.

 

[Rajunz]

Smoke/Pedal fests ARE NOT drag racing.

Where were you in the 60s? The crowds still go wild today for a good pedal fest.

 

[.]

Smoke/Pedal fests ARE NOT drag racing.

Im pretty sure anything that happens between the starting line, and the finish line is drag racing. I love seeing big numbers on the board, but I also love a good pedal fest between two nitro cars. The more times they get on and off the throttle, the better it is. It may not be as exciting to watch on TV, but witnessing a true nitro pedal fest in person is an awesome experience. Im not talking about one courtesy slap, I'm talking about when both cars lose traction near the starting line and both drivers pedal it numerous times until one of them eventually crosses the finish line.

 

[none]

Just slow the cars to what you want, simple,

Paul,

Not arguing, just asking. If you think the solution is "Simple" then what would you do?

Most of us insiders agree that the cars need to be pulled back a little. They don't need to be going 340 MPH to put on a good show. The cost is also ridiculous to run them that hard. Not sure how mechanical you are, but in throw down conditions it's very common for a set of connecting rods to make one run, then go in the trash, or a crankshaft to have a life span of three runs. When even the Schumachers of the world think it's expensive that's saying something.

Here's my theory, if you have more traction than power, then you will always be running the engine at 110% capacity trying to squeeze every last ounce of performance from it to go fast. And any mechanical device being run at max speed and load is going to have a short life.

But: If you have more power than traction, you automatically have to dial back the power level to get it to the ground, that will make the parts last longer, and should also minimize the explosions that come along with pushing parts past their limit.
The crew chiefs know how to do this, when the track temp is 140 in the summer they know they can't utilize all the power, so they back down the power, and nobody has to buy any new stuff, use what you have and don't beat it up so badly.

I talked about this on WFO Radio a few weeks back, there's also an interesting interview with Ed McCulloch on competition plus about the subject.

Saying the track is unsafe is completely wrong, there is simply a little less traction. Again, when we're in Norwalk, or Sonoma and the track temp is 135+ is the track unsafe? Of course not. Can you set records? Also, of course not. Because you don't have as much grip, so you back up the power to match the grip. Just like they are having to do now.

All of this is my opinion.

Alan

 

[ironpony]

Lose the Goodyears and gear the car to the track and have zero slippage, then you will see quick and fast. The Goodyears are spinning the whole track now even with perfect conditions.
As Alan stated they know how to do it, human nature will not let them.

 

[vegasnitro]

Lose the Goodyears and gear the car to the track and have zero slippage, then you will see quick and fast. The Goodyears are spinning the whole track now even with perfect conditions.
As Alan stated they know how to do it, human nature will not let them.

Why lose the Goodyears?