Is there a trend for T/D to run over 230? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Cliff
- Start date
*******
Nitro Member
With the 6.10 limit everyone is going throttle stop set up like SC and leaving soft then turning it loose on the big end. When i first got into TD there were no throttle stops or starting line throttle controls allowed. Now all the cars are using some sort of one either thru the throttle cable itself or timing ramps. Just normal progression of technology. You have 5.80 cars backed off to go 6.10
TD5023
Nitro Member
I don't think there have been any rule changes regarding the throttle setup, at least on the NHRA side. Throttle stops have always been illegal and, as far as I can tell, SLE's have always been allowed, but not widely utilized. Is there a trend going toward on-track throttle manipulation for ET control? Everyone I've talked to just uses timing, but I could be out of the loop. Of course, being a slow car hasn't made any of that necessary on my end. Hopefully that will change soon.
The way these cars are running, being a slow car will be 6.30's...... Well, maybe not quite that quick, but I see the bump getting quicker all the time. I do see some races where there are not a lot of cars, so some 7 second players get in. Still, I love T/D, it is an exciting class to watch.
Chili
Nitro Member
The Midwest are seems to be so much quicker than any other region in the country. i don’t have any numbers in front of me but I think it took a run in the 6.20s to qualify at Indy. The bump spots seem slower out west but I’m sure over time it will get to be the same way. Eventually a 6.50s setup will be obsolete.
Danny Nelson drives a high gear only car (with the number 1 on the side of it) that is high gear only. So it 60 foots at about a 1.05 (very slow and consistent) and has room up top to almost always be the closer on the top end. When these smaller engines are making this kind of horsepower, the exhaust valve is opening against extreme pressure so that is probably the most common failure. Once you get much past 15 mph overtaking speed it gets harder to judge the finish line.
He also readily admits that he has his parachute releasing on a timer, he's busy at the big end and getting the chute out on time needs to be assured.
It would sorta be fun for the rules to allow a top end throttle stop (but not excessive breaking)......
He also readily admits that he has his parachute releasing on a timer, he's busy at the big end and getting the chute out on time needs to be assured.
It would sorta be fun for the rules to allow a top end throttle stop (but not excessive breaking)......
TD5023
Nitro Member
Out west (D6 and D7) runs on a 48-car field for their divisionals, so the need to be fast to make fields hasn't really presented itself there yet and probably won't for the foreseeable future. In 2019, there were only two races with a bump in the sixes, but #32 can still be pretty quick. The ones who travel will have faster combos that can qualify anywhere, but if you're just regional, you can make most fields with a quicker Super Pro dragster.
6.50s pretty much is obsolete in the middle of the country. Last year at Joliet, I was #31 with a 6.57. There were 31 cars there. Just two more on the property would have resulted in a DNQ (because I'm quite sure they would have been quicker). After some recent upgrades, I don't intend to be stuck in the mid-sixes any longer.
Brad, are you running a roots or a Procharger?
TD5023
Nitro Member
Roots. An SSI 14-71 that we got through DMPE. It should be a big improvement over the one that just came off (which a friend bought and put on his boat).
TD5023
Nitro Member
Often, if you see that on the qualifying sheet, it's a person who would be 220+ all-out and lifted to get a legal time above 6.10. This is pretty common, especially in Q1. Then they can use the data to try and tune a better full-pull tuneup. If you know your car is going to be in the mid 6.0's, it's not that difficult to time the lift. For me, letting off at the 1000' loses about .08 in the 1/4. Throttle stops are forbidden, so you won't see that.
You'd be surprised how consistent they can be letting off early, though. Last year, I was making a couple 1/8 mile hits to start the season. The first resulted in a 6.80 in the 1/4. The next was a 6.83 (I would have been about 6.40 in that air). I wasn't even trying to match the 1/4; just making sure it was clean data to the 1/8. That's only two runs, but most ET is made or lost closer to the starting line. As long as you're pretty close on your abort point, the ET doesn't swing too much. Any bracket racer should be able to plan for something similar if they are holding a couple numbers.
I guess I'm kinda amazed that T/D and T/S can run like bracket cars. Just as consistent & they can really cut a good R/T. Brad, very interesting to me what you posted. OK, question. do you think the cars will run faster, say 240? What would be the speed that would enable the driver to judge the finish line? Jeff White noted that a 15 MPH overtaking speed makes it harder to judge the finish. I'm thinking that a driver has to make a lot of runs at, say 225, to know how to judge the finish.
TD5023
Nitro Member
There are already a couple who can run 240 in 6.10 trim. Sackuvich and Kruse come to mind, and Nelson ran 240 in St. Louis on a very odd run. As for judging the stripe, a lot of that depends on the visibility out of your car. I can comfortably see over the sides and a ways behind me, even with the neck restraint, so I can at least kill some speed against someone 30-40 mph faster. When I ran Sackuvich a couple years ago, he was trapping at 242 and I was ~208 and I was able to spot drop late. You just can't commit too early or they'll blow past. Running local quick 16's, I don't have much of a problem driving the stripe against dragsters in the 170's (in the 1/4) where I can keep my eye on them the whole way down. I'd say if they're faster than me, I can comfortably drive the stripe up to a 20 MPH difference and spot drop up to ~35. If I'm the faster car, I can deal with up to about 40. More than that, and everything happens too fast to commit to anything.
My wife would say that judging something at 210 mph in the quarter is quite a bit different from judging the same thing at 225.
You see world champions making slight mistakes at 225 that they'd never make at 210. It's not just the relative car speeds, its how fast you are coming to the finish line .... you may well be the exception, but you are rare if you are.
Now in spite of me trusting her to know what she's doing, she does not trust me. We were coming in for a landing the other day and it was just me and her so she was up front (extremely rare). I was talking her through my thought process and what I wanted the plane to do and when .... after we landed she told me not to talk through the process anymore. She didn't like hearing about when things weren't perfect (and evidently I cuss at the airplane if its not behaving).
You see world champions making slight mistakes at 225 that they'd never make at 210. It's not just the relative car speeds, its how fast you are coming to the finish line .... you may well be the exception, but you are rare if you are.
Now in spite of me trusting her to know what she's doing, she does not trust me. We were coming in for a landing the other day and it was just me and her so she was up front (extremely rare). I was talking her through my thought process and what I wanted the plane to do and when .... after we landed she told me not to talk through the process anymore. She didn't like hearing about when things weren't perfect (and evidently I cuss at the airplane if its not behaving).
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TD5023
Nitro Member
Hopefully I'll be finding that out firsthand next year. I've never minded being the slower car in eliminations, but being on the edge of making fields is tiresome.
I do know that the faster you go, the earlier on the track you have to commit to any driving action for it to have any noticeable effect. Less time to size things up can certainly make for more mistakes.
Wow, 57 MPH in the back half! Isn't the "norm" around 50 MPH? OK, here goes me opening my big mouth, but I think he is running "soft" off the line & going from there. Still, 244.... wow. In early 1972, Don Garlits set the T/F record at 243, & now Will beats that with a T/D. Technology....
Good luck. Making those kind of changes is what makes this sport fun to participate in. One thing you might consider is picking 4 or 5 dominant TDs that run fast right now (Danny is a no brainer, probably Jeff Strickland, Anthony Bertozzi, Ross Laris). Analyze each of their eliminations timeslips from say 2018 to 2020 and watch how they change as drivers. The bar has definitely been raised .... and it greatly favors folks who run over 30 weekends a year. For the past 10+ years our rig has left the shop between 10 and 14 times a year (but for since the wreck in August, 2019) and we put between 10k and 15k miles on the hauler each year since purchased new. We greatly enjoy the sport, but its getting tougher going against people who do almost nothing but 1320's on weekends.
