Ideas for safer, more efficient fuel cars (1 Viewer)

["Chuck"]

Ok so I have really read alot of Maters saying they really hate the new 1000 ft deal and its really spiked my curiosity on this subject. Its obvious everyone wants 1320 again...so how do we slow these hot rods down in a way that we can all enjoy watching the sport again? any ideas?

Personally I think the best way to go is to put a more strict limit on compression ratios and blower overdrive. (although I guess thats easier said than done.) Also I think extending the shutdown areas and sand traps should be an absolute priority at ALL tracks.

 

[.]

http://www.nitromater.com/nhra/16137-dale-armstrong-s-plan.html

Drag Racing Internet Magazine - Competition Plus.com - DALE ARMSTRONG INTERVIEW - THE BEST PLAN FOR SLOWING TOP FUEL DRAGSTERS AND FUNNY CARS

 

[Toejam]

Why does everything depend on how safe the cars are? Seems Track improvements and safety are all but forgotten! Fix the Sand traps and that will save a lot of problems. Was it the speed that killed Scott or the Non snad trap at E-Town?

 

["Chuck"]

Why does everything depend on how safe the cars are? Seems Track improvements and safety are all but forgotten! Fix the Sand traps and that will save a lot of problems. Was it the speed that killed Scott or the Non snad trap at E-Town?

Yeah it was the sandtrap that killed him, but it was the explosion that knocked him out and made him not hit the brakes or pull the chutes...and yeah Dale Armstrong did say the same thing that I said, and I totally agree with him completely. These cars are pushing the limits on the ammount of compression theyre putting to them. Blower overdrive just circumvents compression so the racers cant get around it. So yeah I do think the speed had something to do with scotts death rest his soul.

 

[.]

Yeah it was the sandtrap that killed him, but it was the explosion that knocked him out and made him not hit the brakes or pull the chutes...and yeah Dale Armstrong did say the same thing that I said, and I totally agree with him completely. These cars are pushing the limits on the ammount of compression theyre putting to them. Blower overdrive just circumvents compression so the racers cant get around it. So yeah I do think the speed had something to do with scotts death rest his soul.

Scott was not knocked out, he was driving the car until the very end. Alan Reinhart posted on this site that he could see Scott moving around inside the car before he hit the pole. (Allan was at the end of the track doing interviews for the track PA system) He also said Connie told him he could see Scott driving the car in video footage that the public never got to see. And..... there were front brake skid marks in the shut down area.

Also, Jerry Newman posted on this site that the data logger on Scott's car showed the engine continued to run on engine oil as it's fuel after the explosion which explains why Scott couldn't slow the car down with the brakes. Jerry's information came from Glenn Mikres, Scott's crew chief.

Basically.... the engine exploded, the chutes did not blossom due to the massive fire, Scott couldn't shut the car off because it found another fuel source, the brakes were not enough to stop a funny car with the engine still running.... and we all know the outcome.

The track could have been another 320 feet longer and the result would've been the same. The engine would've probably ran for another 320 feet, or until the oil was gone.

It was a freak deal that happened at a track that had heavy, stationary objects at the end of the shutdown area.

 

[none]

Yeah it was the sandtrap that killed him, but it was the explosion that knocked him out and made him not hit the brakes or pull the chutes...and yeah Dale Armstrong did say the same thing that I said, and I totally agree with him completely. These cars are pushing the limits on the ammount of compression theyre putting to them. Blower overdrive just circumvents compression so the racers cant get around it. So yeah I do think the speed had something to do with scotts death rest his soul.

Can we not put this behind us and let the people that are looking into this tragedy decipher the facts and make recomendations that will prevent it from happening again. I honestly feel that most of the imformation I have seen on this site is useless.

 

["Chuck"]

Scott was not knocked out, he was driving the car until the very end. Alan Reinhart posted on this site that he could see Scott moving around inside the car before he hit the pole. (Allan was at the end of the track doing interviews for the track PA system) He also said Connie told him he could see Scott driving the car in video footage that the public never got to see. And..... there were front brake skid marks in the shut down area.

Also, Jerry Newman posted on this site that the data logger on Scott's car showed the engine continued to run on engine oil as it's fuel after the explosion which explains why Scott couldn't slow the car down with the brakes. Jerry's information came from Glenn Mikres, Scott's crew chief.

Basically.... the engine exploded, the chutes did not blossom due to the massive fire, Scott couldn't shut the car off because it found another fuel source, the brakes were not enough to stop a funny car with the engine still running.... and we all know the outcome.

The track could have been another 320 feet longer and the result would've been the same. The engine would've probably ran for another 320 feet, or until the oil was gone.

It was a freak deal that happened at a track that had heavy, stationary objects at the end of the shutdown area.

Well i stand very corrected I never knew that he was conscious everybody ive talked to said he got knocked out from the explosion. But I would rather not talk about something really tragic like that, I was just simply trying to see what you guys thought about slowing these cars down the right way where it would still be exciting and not be efficient for the crews and drivers too. I'd rather see slower fuel cars than 1000 ft im sure you all agree.

 

[.]

I'd rather see slower fuel cars than 1000 ft im sure you all agree.

I do agree!

 

[my friends call me Zappy]

...so how do we slow these hot rods down in a way that we can all enjoy watching the sport again? any ideas?

It seems to me that any restriction is just compensated by something else. ie less nitro, or less compression, or 1 mag.
My suggestion, just give them less to work with, 400cu. in.

 

[Super Mod]

Just remember, no one is going to throw away or make their current parts obsolete. That's why I think 1000 ft may be here to stay..... at least for a while.

 

[Nitrohaulic]

...so how do we slow these hot rods down in a way that we can all enjoy watching the sport again? any ideas?

It seems to me that any restriction is just compensated by something else. ie less nitro, or less compression, or 1 mag.
My suggestion, just give them less to work with, 400cu. in.

I'd rather see them with lower compression 500 than to be blowing up 400 cubes because of running the compression as high as they can.

I think it would be great for the sport if NHRA would NOW announce 1320 ft and lower compression rules for next year so everyone could tool up and get ready. Would be more affordable for all the competitors and bring back quarter mile drag racing. It's apparent that those who've seen 1000 ft don't like it.

 

[Toejam]

Yeah it was the sandtrap that killed him, but it was the explosion that knocked him out and made him not hit the brakes or pull the chutes...and yeah Dale Armstrong did say the same thing that I said, and I totally agree with him completely. These cars are pushing the limits on the ammount of compression theyre putting to them. Blower overdrive just circumvents compression so the racers cant get around it. So yeah I do think the speed had something to do with scotts death rest his soul.

You think any rule NHRA makes is going to eliminate explosions?

 

[Mikey]

No matter the changes made drag racing may never be safe. You give Alan Johnson 400 CI he would make it go 300 mph. Change the compression they will still be going fast enough to hurt themselves. They need to adopt some concepts from the open wheel racers. The cockpit is where the changes need to be made, its that simple. What makes this so hard to understand?

 

[Toejam]

Does anybody ever consider the HUGE costs any changes will cost these teams? You think we have low car counts now, wait till the lesser funded teams get told that all of their 500 CI Blocks, Pistons, Rods and Cranks are worthless? How many think that some of these guys just say "Screw this"! and just quit?

 

[.]

Does anybody ever consider the HUGE costs any changes will cost these teams? You think we have low car counts now, wait till the lesser funded teams get told that all of their 500 CI Blocks, Pistons, Rods and Cranks are worthless? How many think that some of these guys just say "Screw this"! and just quit?

Joe,

Blocks, Pistons, Rods and Cranks don't stick around nearly as long as they once did. Teams are going through these parts fairly regularly so having to buy new parts is nothing new.... they'll just order a different size when they place their next order.

Don't get me wrong, I feel the same way as you do about the 1000ft deal but I don't think changing the size of engine components will be as costly as it sounds.

 

[Mooseman]

I'm amased in a good way how you americans are trying to find ways to make everything safer , you don't see this kind of talk down here in new zealand when an accident happens in motorsports well not publicly anyway . People here just tend to say oh well it was an accident and they move on keep racing and nothing really changes . Its good seeing these kind of discussions

 

[FC138fan]

Couldn't they just take the blueprint for a 1985 top fuel engine and make that the standard? (if not 1985 then whatever year produced the most consistent engine with the most exciting races). Then you could make the funnycar bodies look more like they did in the mid 80's too.. and go back to 100% nitro. Didn't they use one engine over multiple races back then too? Everyone loved the drags back in those days, and there were lots more people racing.

 

[The Counterfeiter]

Does anybody ever consider the HUGE costs any changes will cost these teams? You think we have low car counts now, wait till the lesser funded teams get told that all of their 500 CI Blocks, Pistons, Rods and Cranks are worthless? How many think that some of these guys just say "Screw this"! and just quit?

Joe - you need to completely read the Dale Armstrong interview mentioned above. Only changes required would be blower pulleys and 6:1 pistons.
Of course, someone would have to teach NHRA Tech how to check compression ratio (Dale addresses that) and have someone who can count the teeth on pulleys. A very important point by Dale is that severe penalties be imposed for cheating.
If Dale says this will work, who are we to doubt someone with this much experience? Unfortunately, NHRA chose to listen to teams who resisted this
11 years ago. If anyone is left in Glendora with a lick of sense, NHRA should ask teams to volunteer to test this (and provide parts to ensure consistency) as soon as the season ends. Has anyone else who completely understands all of the factors involved put forth a solution? If not, isn't this worth a try?

 

[Nitrohaulic]

Joe - you need to completely read the Dale Armstrong interview mentioned above. Only changes required would be blower pulleys and 6:1 pistons.
Of course, someone would have to teach NHRA Tech how to check compression ratio (Dale addresses that) and have someone who can count the teeth on pulleys. A very important point by Dale is that severe penalties be imposed for cheating.
If Dale says this will work, who are we to doubt someone with this much experience? Unfortunately, NHRA chose to listen to teams who resisted this
11 years ago. If anyone is left in Glendora with a lick of sense, NHRA should ask teams to volunteer to test this (and provide parts to ensure consistency) as soon as the season ends. Has anyone else who completely understands all of the factors involved put forth a solution? If not, isn't this worth a try?

They could have a template made. A piece of plastic or whatever with a hole in it with the correct number of female splines so it can just slip over blower and crank pulleys if they have the correct number of teeth. No counting.

Checking compression would be a breeze as long as one of 16 spark plugs will still come out.

I remember an article referring to Dale Armstrong as drag racing's million dollar man/tuner. He spent enough time and money developing things to make the cars go faster that they quickly banned that they ought to at least listen to him when he suggests how to slow them down.

I just saw "Catch Me If You Can" for the first time several weeks ago. Who did the FBI end up using as their top guy to catch forgers? The best forger! If you have a check in your hand today, he designed the security features. The banks he used to steal millions from now pay him millions.

I bet you have a special appreciation for that movie, Jim. Thought of you and your old screen name while watching it.

 

[none]

They could have a template made. A piece of plastic or whatever with a hole in it with the correct number of female splines so it can just slip over blower and crank pulleys if they have the correct number of teeth. No counting.

Checking compression would be a breeze as long as one of 16 spark plugs will still come out.

I remember an article referring to Dale Armstrong as drag racing's million dollar man/tuner. He spent enough time and money developing things to make the cars go faster that they quickly banned that they ought to at least listen to him when he suggests how to slow them down.

I just saw "Catch Me If You Can" for the first time several weeks ago. Who did the FBI end up using as their top guy to catch forgers? The best forger! If you have a check in your hand today, he designed the security features. The banks he used to steal millions from now pay him millions.

I bet you have a special appreciation for that movie, Jim. Thought of you and your old screen name while watching it.

Ron, I must admit I'm a little confused at your reply as I have a great amount of respect for you.
First, I know you know there is a lot more to blower efficiency than the amount of overdrive used to drive it.
Second, Checking cranking compression has more to do with cam timeing than with the Compression RATIO of the motor, Therefore checking it with a guage is a waste of time.
I also have the utmost respect for Dale Armstrong but if the other "Current" fuel crew chiefs have reasons they do not want to go along with his suggestions I will support their opinions as they are up to the minute on current technology.