Drivers speak on shutdown areas (1 Viewer)

[Larry]

We all really know the answers to all these questions.
The cars are fast , and dangerious and $hit happens sometimes one thing after another.
Flying body parts foul chutes which automatically deploy when the body disintegrates and sand traps work pretty good up to a certain speed.

Over half the tracks , even if the money was there could not extend the shutdown area because of roads , rivers and creeks, airports and industrial areas.
Most of the tracks were adequate for existing speeds when the rules went into effect quite a few years ago.

Slow the cars and go to 1,000 ft. and safety and the future of Pro Drag Racing will continue , that is if the supply of Nitro comes through.
With the not in my backyard crew set to take the helm Racing will be hard pressed to look greenish.

Not in a good mood , I liked Scott and Doug and Connie like to talk to the fans after the races , they are good for the sport .
It's got to change things for them from now on. It sure did for Joe Amato .

Now the dang cars computer and Ign. is giving me crud and it's near a hundred outside.
I got to get hold of my nephew who went to Wyo/Tech to learn about the dang thangs.
See it's got me regressing into drawl again.
Anyone besides me notice the made in China labels on MSD products?
I've got an old MSD 6A box made in the USA I'm going to try in the morning.
MSD module made in China , I wonder where the Accel Gen 7 computer is made , Borneo !
Oh God give me a break.

 

[The Counterfeiter]

Track safety and how the NHRA enforces it is pretty strange. There are specific written guidelines, developed with Wiesenberg or at least with their input, that dictate a lot of the aspects of track safety, e.g. wall height, length, obstructions, locations of the walls. But those are routinely ignored. THere are many NHRA tracks which don't meet the current standards, much less any new ones. It might be different for national event tracks, but there are lots of local tracks that aren't even close.
Incidently, try and get a copy of the wiesenberg standards and see how far you get. They get pretty angry if they find out that you have a set of them, which seems strange given that they are in existence for safety purposes.

Toni - very interesting! I've never heard of the weisenberg standards . . . could you tell us who Weisenberg is? And . . . how we might obtain a copy?
It's probably in the Policy Manual -

 

[J.C.]

Toni - very interesting! I've never heard of the weisenberg standards . . . could you tell us who Weisenberg is? And . . . how we might obtain a copy?
It's probably in the Policy Manual -

Jim - Ok, I'll bite, what "Policy Manual", lol?

 

[The Counterfeiter]

Well . . . it's about freaking time that drivers take a stand! On another thread it was stated that Norwalk also has shutdown area issues. If drivers fear for their lives, team owners and sponsors should support a boycott to force NHRA to . . . WAKE UP!

 

[Stroker]

Toni - very interesting! I've never heard of the weisenberg standards . . . could you tell us who Weisenberg is? And . . . how we might obtain a copy?
It's probably in the Policy Manual -

Weisenberg............Insurance company

 

[FABMAN]

Now i could be wrong and someone correct me if i am, when NHRA has a national event at any given track they take over the responsibility and the owner is outside looking in for 4 days. As for P.R.O. it almost seems that they're scared of NHRA , if they cross Light or Compton bad times will prevail for the team, whats the secrecy's crap, Bob V. has it right they need non-partisan leadership to get action. As i write this i am watching Atlanta 05 race and F/C is running 4.80's 324MPH and no blown motors and no accidents.It seems problems started happening after Wally's passing especially with NHRA. I pray for the racers,owners and sponsors that they band together and start making changes, NHRA has shown what they can do and thats not good enough.

 

[Mike]

There are no current standards for safety at NHRA tracks. Not for how prep is done, not for the safety crew, not for the track configuration. There are some suggested guidelines, but nothing with any teeth. The 2 major insurance companies have stricter guidelines and requirements for the spacing between the grandstand rails and credentials then they do for the racing operations.
Case in point:
-the policy reads, in part, that a track shall have at least 2 EMT's (basic life support NOT Paramedics) whenever any vehicle makes a pass down the track.
-In the paragraph dealing with fire/ rescue, it states "shall have at least one person who has attended the NHRA/ SFI Drag Racing Incident Response class" (an 8 hr class). there are no mentions of type of cars runing, etc...
-so this 2 person crew with 1 semester at a Jr College and 8 hrs of training and no required fire fighting or rescue experience could be all that stands between a racer and disaster
Numerous conversations with SFI, NHRA, Division and the insurance reps failed to convince any of them to designate track operations according to the track's capability on all fronts of conducting certain events.
The idea behind the program was to give an "incentive", if you will, to those track operators who were willing to invest in manpower, equipment and training. If they did, they would be eligible to host Alcohol, Nitro and other high-end events..if not, they couldn't. Undestand that some track operators would rather invest in another beer well or snack bar then VHT, drags, EMT's and fire/ rescue gear.
As a per diem member of the Safety Safari, we do walk the track prior to each event and we do point out items that can be fixed prior to race start, but if its part of the permanent " landscape" there was not much we could do or say.
Keep up the pressure... The technology and solutions are available. The powers that be must be convinced that it is in everyone's best interest to make the changes and set the standards!
The Natl Fire Protection Assn (NFPA) has published a set of "Guidelines for Emergency Response at Motorsports Events" and the Intl Council for Motorsports Sciences (ICMS) also conducts annual conferences on motorsports safety...the brain trust is out there, but it MUST move from suggestions to mandates.

 

[Randy]

I thought that years ago the catch net at the end of the track was actually several nets in succession. It seems to me I remember seeing a car go off into the sand and going through the first net, which slowed him down tremendously, and then coming to a complete stop in the second net. Am I dreaming, or was the sand trap set up this way in the past. Could something like this not be used again?

 

[Mike]

Anything that spreads out the g-forces over time and distance will go a long way in terms of driver injury and survivability. Some tracks replaced the deadly Armco with concrete walls , so the speed could be "bled" off, rather than a sudden stop...same with the " kitty litter" and catch nets...spread it out and less damage is done...a rollover is signficantly more survivable that a head on collision.

The real answer is science, mandates and $$$

 

[Chad]

Anything that spreads out the g-forces over time and distance will go a long way in terms of driver injury and survivability. Some tracks replaced the deadly Armco with concrete walls , so the speed could be "bled" off, rather than a sudden stop...same with the " kitty litter" and catch nets...spread it out and less damage is done...a rollover is signficantly more survivable that a head on collision.

The real answer is science, mandates and $$$

Michael, thank you for taking the time to post, and thank you for being candid with us. As a Class Racer, you confirmed alot of what I already suspected

 

[Whipster]

If you look at the map, the curve in the wall doesn't look as dramatic as in the video of Scott's crash but would really suck if you're in the left lane:

Google Maps

 

[Bob]

I thought that years ago the catch net at the end of the track was actually several nets in succession. It seems to me I remember seeing a car go off into the sand and going through the first net, which slowed him down tremendously, and then coming to a complete stop in the second net. Am I dreaming, or was the sand trap set up this way in the past. Could something like this not be used again?

I know I've seen multiple catch nets at some tracks, but I have no idea how many tracks have them (or have room for them). I was wondering if water filled plastic drums like those used on highway bridge abutments lined up behind the catch net(s) would help. A couple rows of those would be an inexpensive safety addition to the end of the shutdown area.

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

We need to address another issue, in my humble opinion.
It appears from all I can glean from the videos that Scott was not conscience in the car beyond the explosion and the lack of driver manipulation for chutes, brakes, fire suppression, etc. causes a new problem not remedied by longer tracks, bigger sand traps, etc. I've seen way too many drivers knocked out in the car over the years from impact or explosion where they continued down track or into and along the wall at speed and I believe this issue might have application to Scott's accident. This situation should be part of our current concerns-at least in my humble opinion.

 

[none]

Scott was absolutely conscience after the engine let go and he was driving the car until the last second.

I also strongly disagree with what Vandergriff said, but I'm not going to debate it here.

Alan

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

Scott was absolutely conscience after the engine let go and he was driving the car until the last second.

I also strongly disagree with what Vandergriff said, but I'm not going to debate it here.

Alan

I kinda' thought the same thing, Alan, but then I had another look at it after a small debate on another thread with Rex Lawler. It originally appeared to me that the car was bouncing going into the sand, telling me he was on the brakes, but Rex said he witnessed it and the car was bouncing from the initial percussion and never stopped. I had another look and honestly could see it both ways.

By the way, I disagree with much Bob said as well.

Sean D

 

[Kelly]

Oh, Alan....I KNOW you and I don't know Bob. I tend to lean towards your opinions and feelings simply because.....well, just cuz.

For those that haven't had the opportunity, Alan and I have had MANY conversations about this sport. I, for one, totally respect his opinion!

 

[clwill]

I don't want to attack Bob V for what he said, for much of it was borne of frustration and he's completely entitled to that. But one thing he said just caught me wrong. When it said:

The problem is that I am one of the very few drivers that go to the top end and inspect every one of the facilities and The Safety Safari told me that. They've told me that not very many of the drivers go down there. That's mind-boggling.

If this is true, this is really mind boggling. One of the first thing we were taught about racing was to really know the track. Examine everything, every time you go there. Where are the exits, what do your shutdown options look like, what are the staging lanes like, etc., etc. The last thing you want is questions running through your head when the pooh hits the fan.

 

[megadeth]

I would say a competitor's opinion would carry some weight not to mention other drivers who have voiced their negative opinions about the safety of some facilities after all they are the ones who risk the most.
I don't want to knock Alan who usually has some valid points but isn't Alan an NHRA employee?
Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[TJ]

Oh Kelly...you suck up to Alan R....cause he talks to you. You are too easy..

Alans knowledge on racing compared to Vandergriffs experience?
C'mon you have to kidding....

Bob races....Alan watches and is in the same club as Bob Frey---simple as that!

 

[MoparBilly]

Alans knowledge on racing compared to Vandergriffs experience?
C'mon you have to kidding....

Bob races....Alan watches and is in the same club as Bob Frey---simple as that!

Terry,
If I were to make a snap judgement on your intelligence based on one statement... Well, come to think of it, you've probably made a few that would serve as a back-up to this one!!

Vandergriffs experience? C'mon you have to [be] kidding....

I've raced at 30 different drag strips, and usually the first time I see the shutdown area is when I'm using it. Sad, but true, and I have no reason to doubt what Bob said about that issue.
I had a friend who destroyed his car at Firebird this year, brakes failed, and he drove out the back gate until he hit a berm and jumped the car, Dukes of Hazzard style. Later, he commented, "I kept waiting to hit a sand trap, and they didn't have one!" He's raced at Firebird for 10+ years, and had never went past the curve to see what was actually out there.

Like Alan, I beleive Scott was driving the car all the way to the sand... I'm not sure it matters.

It really bothers me when people ask why drivers didn't make these concerns public before hand. Obviously these people have no inkling what it feels like to want to race so bad it affects nearly every decision in your life. Many a drag racer has faced divorce and financial ruin in thier persuit of the sport, now you want them to make a decision on whether an event is safe to race at? The Sanctioning Body has organized the event, the car owner towed the car to the event, the crew has prepared the car for the event, you've sacrificed alot to get the oportunity to drive, and now you're going to voice safety concerns. C-mon!!