Converter problems (1 Viewer)

Terry

Nitro Member
Hi all you knowledgeable people!

Looking for info on converter failure. My A-1 6100 stall converter in my super gas car suddenly became a 3200 stall converter. From past experiences, I'm guessing I broke the sprag. I'm a little short on converter troubleshooting knowledge, so if anyone can help me with diagnosis, I'd appreciate it.

Terry Larsen
5072 SG
 
Think you're right, sprag probably rolled over and locked up, had it happen on mine about this time last year.

Thanks for the verification, Ronny! And the response also. I'm new to the 'mater (joined last week) and have to admit that most of my threads and responses to threads have gone un-responded to--kinda feeling left out, so thanks for the response. Guess I'll box it up and send it back to its father, Marv Ripes!
 
Thanks for the verification, Ronny! And the response also. I'm new to the 'mater (joined last week) and have to admit that most of my threads and responses to threads have gone un-responded to--kinda feeling left out, so thanks for the response. Guess I'll box it up and send it back to its father, Marv Ripes!
Terry, you're probably not getting many responses because you're not spreading enough gossip..........I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it.......:D
 
Ok, Ronny, I'll take your advice. However, if that's your car in the avatar, and you have some time, I'd like to hear about it. I'd even be willing to tell you a bit about my car also, but only if you twist my arm really hard!
 
Depending on how the car leaves the line, you need to check your front pump in your transmission.
If you break the pins that hold the stater support in your pump, it will roll the support. The intake and exhaust fluid lines will not line up and work anything correctly. What will happen is the car will not come up on the converter. It will run the first hundred feet like a slug, then it will magically take off. It usually runs bigger rpms than normal from that point on. Fools quite a few people when that happens. (Because it seems like it is just the converter.)
So check that as well. When that happens, it sometimes hurts the converter too. Just don't want you to spend good money to have your converter fixed and then hurt it in your first pass out. Have that front pump looked at by your builder.
We are twisting your arm, lets hear it. Here is the car in my avitar. (O.K. So it was in my avitar.)
smiller.jpg

This picture is a 499 cubic inch, alcohol injected, Pontiac headed Big Block. Was a powerglide car, now a B&J Converter-drive. Simple stuff.
 
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Terry,
Yes, that's my car, although the pic was taken by the previous owner. He ran with Bobby Marriot's fuel altered group in the Dallas area. I bought the roller in the middle of the summer so it's still a work in progress. I sold my rear engine dragster roller the first of the year ( a couple of guys out in Buzzz's neck of the woods bought it) and had a deal working on another altered (which fell through) so didn't get much racing done this year. Kept the engine and since I ran the dragster with a 2-speed Lenco-drive I wound up selling the tranny about a month later to the guys that bought the dragster, thinking I would turn around and buy a 3-speed Lenco-drive. Didn't realize how much they had gone up since I bought the 2-speed. Anyway, decided to go with a clutch/Lenco instead so I've been gathering drivetrain pieces while the engine sits patiently between the frame rails. Quick run down on specs, Plueger 125" chassis, Strange 9" toploader, 4:10 gears, Crower 3-disk pedal clutch, Lenco 3-speed, Convo 16" beadlocks, Weld fronts,engine is 541 KB 1/2" tall-deck, 4.31" bore/4.625" crank, presently Stage V water-heads but will have Veney billets on before Spring, Mooneyham 14-71 Hi-Helix with a Hilborn Shotgun that I've had since 1981 and for some reason, just can't part with it. Pretty odd-ball combination, but I've always enjoyed making people scratch their heads when it runs better than it's supposed to. Hoping to run with the new Nostalgia ProComp group next year, all index and heads-up racing. Went to their season ender at Beach Bend this last weekend and they look like they're having a ball racing without breaking the bank in the process. Ok now, consider your arm twisted......:D
 
Ronnie,
If you haven't bought your convertor drive may I suggest you look into the new B&J unit? It's absolutely awesome and in my opinion, after doing a bunch of homework, superior as well. As we all know, you can hear two different opinions from any two owners but we absolutely love ours!
Check then out here!

http://www.bandjtransmission.com/converter.html
 
Glad you guys twisted my arm! First of all, thanks Buzzz for the info on the possibility of stator support damage in the pump. Your description of how the car would go is an exact description of the scenario of the last run. I will definitely have that checked out before reinstalling the freshened converter. Thanks for the insite. Ok, my car is a 1990 Corvette VFN body, Ron Folk chromoly chassis, Strange strut front, 4 link with a fab 9 inch. An older car, but it works well. Using Shafiroff power (my first purchased engine!) a Shafiroff Pro 555 that dynoed at 972 hp @ 7000. The car runs 8.30s at our local track at 2310 ft. when the air is good. In super gas trim we can go the 9.90 at about 160 which puts us in the upper mid super gas mph range. This was the year for transmission failures for us. Destroyed an "indestructible" JW 1.80 straight cut low gear set, two converters, and an input shaft. Buzzz, I do have a new TCI super pump in the box, so when we put the trans back together, we'll replace the worked over TCI stock type pump just to be sure.

Ronny and Buzzz, your cars are awesome and quite a few levels above what I am running, but thanks for sharing your knowledge and info about the cars. I always feel that our best chance for troubleshooting a car problem is to appeal to the "collective consciousness" of all the other racers! Not too many problems we can find that someone else hasn't thrashed out at some point in time. Thanks again and keep in touch via the board. I appreciate your input and car info
 
Yup. It is the old, chase the weak link deal. Put some power to it and we start to see problems we never had before. Broken transmissions, converters, input shafts, etc. Then when you step that up, you find the new weak link.
Cool car. Good luck with it. And if you need any other help or suggestions . . .
 
Terry,
Glad Buzzz filled you in on the other possibility, other than burning clutches, I've never really broken anything in a glide, so hadn't experienced that particular problem. The sprag problem I had last year was the convertor in the Lenco-drive, and was probably more related to my un-checked zeal of doing burnouts with a blower motor. Sound like you've got a fun ride, hope you get the breakage problems sorted out, know they can be aggravating.

Doc,
Thanks for the tip, for some reason, when I read Buzzz's post, and saw B&J convertor drive, my mind was thinking Bruno, don't think I realized that B&J was making their own deal. I really have no complaints with the Lenco-drive. although the reverser is a POS, you'd think that Lenco could get that straight after 30 years. I decided to bite the bullet and go with a clutch/lenco setup since the car was already setup for it, although I know zip about clutches, been trying to learn as much as I can the last couple of months. I figure if it doesn't work out, the clutch and can won't be that hard to sell. From the pics, it looks like the B&J unit will bolt to a standard clutch can, or do they sell their own bellhousing? Also do you know if the bolt pattern on the tranny side is compatible with a Lenco also? I still have my Lenco-drive convertor which has the C-6 input and noticed the B&J is available with that input also. Just trying to weigh out my options. Thanks again for the info.
 
When the original maker of the Quickdrive went under, two people owned half of the rights to that design and patents. Lenco and B&J.
B&J have really done quite a bit in making them better recently. Air activated trans brakes, changing fluid venting, re-designing the reverser, seperating it from the trans unit, etc. Lenco pretty much kept it just as it was.
The B&J will bolt up to either a lenco or a B&J. Lenco does not have that option. I have seen the unit bolt up to a standard bellhousing, but not sure how that works. B&J have their own bellhousing that goes with the unit. Full SFI cert, etc. Also, you only have to run a blanket over the trans unit. The drive does not require a blanket unlike the Lenco unit. Lenco takes one huge blanket over the entire assembly.
When you think B&J- do NOT think Bruno.
I met the guys that run your dragster now. They had problems with the converterdrive, and had to send it back to lenco. IT is supposed to be fixed, and they should be testing sometime soon.
Good luck with your deal.
 
Buzzz,
Thanks for clearing up the confusion, I remembered the Quickdrive several years back and thinking that Lenco was part owner of the rights to it and that was the basis for the Lenco-drive. What's always confused me is the that the L-drive didn't look the way I remembered the Q-drive looking. When I looked at the B&J site today, that's what I remembered it to look like. I just never knew that B&J was the other rights holder. I've always felt like the B&J trannys were good pieces, just seems like cars I've had (other than the RED), foot room has always be a premium and the Lenco was a tad smaller physically. Since I've got a straight 3-speed and it appears from what you've told me it will bolt to the Q-drive, I may have to look into it. Even though this car was setup with a clutch, apparently the guy wasn't running the 4 quandrant bolts that are required for a 6.2 SFI. The can that I bought has some clearance issues because the motor plate and cowl piece are made for the 23T firewall and there is no room to move the quadrant bolts inward toward the centerline as they are right up against the bellhousing circle of the block. As far as I know, a convertor setup only requires a 30.1 ??? or whatever the number is, which only requires the bellhousing bolts so I could either sell the can or cut the quadrant ears off and get it certed for a convertor instead of a clutch. What kind of adjustability do you have with the t-brake hit, is there any way to soften it up?

I remember Gary telling me he met you at Speedworld, yeah they have had some problems. Mostly reverser is what he had to send to Lenco but first time they fired it on stands, apparently the transbrake had come loose and fell into the pan, not realizing it, he was pushing the forward/reverse shifter pretty hard, trying to get it to go in one or the other. At least from what he was telling me about how he was doing it, I think some of the damage occurred them. As I mentioned earlier the lenco reverser needs some serious overhaul, the reverse gear is nothing more than a stamped clamshell with teeth, the slider gear is a machined piece but they installed the wrong one when I bought the tranny from Snyder, was only engaging the reverse side of the gear about .060, and as it is only about .110" thick total it didn't take long to knock the edges off the teeth, about 6 passes total. Snyder blamed Lenco, Lenco blamed Snyder, I footed the bill,(typical deal). Had 26 more passes on it with no problems, other than some overheating on a short turnround. At the time though, the car was slowing slightly, which I couldn't pinpoint but felt like the motor or blower was just wearing down, but a buddy was standing behind me on the line and told me afterward he thought it was the sprag in the convertor. Took it to PTC in AL and they opened it up and he was right. Had it converted to spragless and wound up selling the car so havn't gotten to try it out in anything. Gary could use it but he apparently has a deal with Hughes and from what I understand Hughes doesn't like to work on anyone elses stuff. Anyway, to put things in perspective, Gary's wife just got out of the hospital, after 3-4 weeks of life-threatening complications from gall bladder removal (and finding she was pregnant) so his life has been pretty complicated for a while. I talked to him Tuesday and she had just gotten to come home a few days before, he sounded pretty beat, but optimistic that her health was turning around. So it may be a little while before they get to the track.
Anyway, didn't mean to write a book, but really appreciate the info on the B&J.
 
The B&J reverser is pretty cool. They re-designed it because of the monster truck guys. These guys are hammering full throttle in reverse for some of their jumps, shows and freestyle stuff. So B&J went hog wild and started from scratch. Cool reverser. I have two of the quick drive units and both have dual patterns in the back for B&J and lenco. I believe they all have that.
If you talk to him, have him run that converter. At least to test it against Hughes. I am not a fan of Hughes converters. I had one that worked once. They told me that it would not work, but it did. (Bought it used off of some guy.) They cut it apart to freshen it, and I got another converter back that was supposed to be so much better, as they told me again that the one that worked, would never work. I have not seen a hughes converter work since that one left my hand 10 years ago. My 60's went from 1.12 to 1.19. My MPH dropped something like 6 mph, and my rpms through the lights went up 5-600 rpm. Tried many Hughes converters since and have not seen one that works. My blanket statement is I will not put a hughes converter in my lawnmower. They make great tranny stuff, and great high performance stuff, but not converters for me.
Good luck with your deal. Sounds really cool.
 
As far as convertors go, there may be a bunch of great ones out there however, for our money, we'll stick with Neal Chance Convertors. His bolt-together units are absolutely bullet proof! Their tunability is an added value and when you kill a glide, like we have over and over for the past two years, you can open them up and clean them out right in the pits.
Check them out

NEAL CHANCE RACING TORQUE CONVERTERS ---+---HOME OF THE FASTEST AUTOMATIC DOORSLAMMERS
 
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