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TopFuel@Lions

Nitro Member
In my other world of racing that I work in, dirt track racing, Dirt Late Models specifically, the 2022 season is absolutely drunk with good paying shows. Why can't the Drag Racing segment of motorsports do it?

For example ,there is;
1- $1.000.000 to win race at Eldora.
1-$128,000 to win event.
1-$100,000 to win event.
1-$75,000 to win race.
17-$50,000 to win races.
7-$30,000 to win events.
18-$25,000 to win events.
22-$20,000+ to win events

These are events that have been already scheduled in the past moth and change. That does not account for the $15k and 10K shows that litter the season already with many more to come.

I just wish our nitro boys and gals as well as the Pro Stocks could have more big $ like my dirt people. That list above does not even take into account the World of Outlaw Sprints. And yes I am aware of the Gainesville and Indy events.


TopFuel@Lions
Talladega Announcer
 
I agree with the big race payouts, our family went from stock/superstock racing into dirt modifieds 20 years ago. So many big races, even the 50k to win for imca stock cars in Batesville was unbelievable. Even regionally around here we have some pretty decent payouts. I think part of it has to do with how much easier it is to get fans in the stands as well as getting sponsors and exposure. Another thing on payouts, if I start a feature i'm getting some pay, I always hated going 3 or 4 rounds drag racing and getting pretty much nothing in return, lol
 
TopFuel@Lions said:
In my other world of racing that I work in, dirt track racing, Dirt Late Models specifically, the 2022 season is absolutely drunk with good paying shows. Why can't the Drag Racing segment of motorsports do it?

For example ,there is;
1- $1.000.000 to win race at Eldora.
1-$128,000 to win event.
1-$100,000 to win event.
1-$75,000 to win race.
17-$50,000 to win races.
7-$30,000 to win events.
18-$25,000 to win events.
22-$20,000+ to win events

These are events that have been already scheduled in the past moth and change. That does not account for the $15k and 10K shows that litter the season already with many more to come.

I just wish our nitro boys and gals as well as the Pro Stocks could have more big $ like my dirt people. That list above does not even take into account the World of Outlaw Sprints. And yes I am aware of the Gainesville and Indy events.


TopFuel@Lions
Talladega Announcer
Click to expand...
Mark,

In all of the large purse races listed, what is second, third, fourth, etc.. paid?
 
So I'm assuming the $1Mil Eldora race is the biggest in that series? That's a nice number. One thing to remember, in an NHRA event, there are always at least 3 pro classes, and they each get round money, and in the fuel classes, there is non qualifier money. The fact that drag racers deserve a lot more can't be debated. But there is a unique structure given all the classes that are contested. We need an improved financial model, and ultimately more partners. The money has to come from somewhere.
 
There are some races in my Dirt Late Model world that pay as much or more to start that the winner of a TAFC National event.

Mike Minnick, tell me where the non NHRA big money events are at and what the runner up, 3rd, or 2nd, or 1st round winner get?

The Eldora Kings Royal paid not 1, but 2 races paying $175,000 each.



TopFuel@Lions
Talladega Announcer
 
MM said:
There are several big money to win races all over the country.....they're just not NHRA national events.
Click to expand...
Pro Mods and Pro Stocks raced for $75k and $50k to win at the last two DI Doorslammer Nationals at Orlando Speedworld. This coming weekend Bradenton has a Pro Mod paying $50k to win. There are many high dollar bracket races paying huge money every year. Florida's Gage Burch was 19 years old when he won a $525k bracket race. He won a $50k race a couple days before at the same track.

If you are talking about T/F and F/C, you have to remember when NHRA increased their schedule to 24 races, they made it very hard for the nitro racers to even "test" anywhere. NHRA effectively shut down the IHRA's nitro show and most nitro race match racing and other nitro racing. At the time, it was a smart move for NHRA as each of the nitro team's major sponsors most likely had it in their contract that the racer had to enter all NHRA National Events. If a team went against NHRA's mandate, the team wasn't allowed to race at NHRA events.

If you are talking about TAFC, as cool as they are and as much as I enjoy watching them, they don't pull a high dollar ticket buying crowd. It's the same reason the PGA Pro Tour pays huge money to win and the PGA's state qualifying events don't. The golf state qualifiers don't draw ticket buyers willing to pay much at all and it's too bad for the same reason TAFC doesn't. These guys can play extremely well and entertain. But they are not Phil Michelson, Tiger Woods or... John Force. (Just how famous is the awesome Frank Manzo?)

Only your top 3 or 4 payouts listed pay more than drag racing and drag racing's high dollar bracket races match all but Eldora. There are other real issues as to why Eldora and some other "roundy-round" races can pay the winner such big $$$ and drag racing doesn't for "spectator paid shows". It has to do with "the show" and Mr. Reinhart and I debated it a lot on here a couple months ago.
 
The money has to come from somewhere.
A) Your class is so popular it attracts significant spectator numbers. Nitro is the only thing that does this consistently.
B) High entry fees with big car counts. Bracket racing does this.

Dirt tracks have the advantage of hundreds of teams that can turn up. If you gave a clever promoter 100 fuel cars I’m sure they could develop a million dollar-paying event.
 
Luke Nieuwhof said:
The money has to come from somewhere.
A) Your class is so popular it attracts significant spectator numbers. Nitro is the only thing that does this consistently.
B) High entry fees with big car counts. Bracket racing does this.

Dirt tracks have the advantage of hundreds of teams that can turn up. If you gave a clever promoter 100 fuel cars I’m sure they could develop a million dollar-paying event.
Click to expand...
Not being a dirt track fanatic, I have no idea how their rule structure works. IF all the wing cars use the same set of rules or the rules are so similar that a racer can make simple changes to his car to make it fit the various tracks rules, then dirt racing has an absolutely huge advantage over drag racing.

Can you imagine trying to get all the TAFC guys to throw nitro in the tank and race at a nitro F/C show? How could you make a F/C out of a dragster or Pro Stock or Pro Mod? You can't logically. Personally I'm still confused with the details between the new A/FX vs. the FS Showdown cars. Without knowing what the class lettering on a drag car means, most drag race spectators can't tell you the difference between an A/SS car, some Super Gas cars, a A/FX, FS, Top Sportsman, Pro Stock and you can really mess them up with the Pro Mods. The tremendous variety of drag racing classes just in NHRA makes it very confusing on the fans. If most spectators don't know someone racing or are affiliated with a class, they are confused beyond all reason.

Back in the mid 90's, my son and I had the privilege to spend the weekend at the Atlanta race where our seats were in one of the tower suites. We sat between Eddie Hill's mother and her friend on one side and Barry Meguiar and his wife on the other side. They were a lot of fun even though none of them were extremely versed in drag racing. (Barry knew more than Eddie's mother.) The two knew enough about T/F but were totally lost on TAFC, TAD, SS, S, Pro Stock. Then Comp was a complete nightmare to try to explain without frustrating them... and us.

Their confusion is a very serious issue in attempting to sell drag racing to the general ticket buying masses. How many jokes have there been about women not knowing football rules? (You know which women know the difference between a forward pass and flirting? ...It's the ugly women that doesn't know what either one is.) There's only one set of rules in football. Drag racing has it's full tree, pro tree, handicap start, True Start, won't start, timed out start, breakout, double breakout and dead-on with a zero. And the general public has a headache. Add in the 17 different eliminators at NHRA races, plus the small tire classes, the nostalgia gasser classes, the nitro nostalgia classes. Outlaw whatever, Import races and now... EV classes.

What might make drag racing so much fun for us drag racing nuts doesn't always do much for others. It can drive the average person away as quickly as trying to make me an expertly informed fan of: modern dance, ballroom dance, ballet, square dancing, line dancing, polka dancing and of course... the chicken dance. I'm not interested in buying a ticket to any dance and guess what... dancing typically doesn't pay the winner much more than a trophy.

Drag racings multitude of classes and rules makes it very hard for the majority of people to enjoy the typical very long day at the drags.
 
Where would you find 100 fuel cars? Maybe if you include A/FD and Nostalgia F/C & AA/FD...... and import Australia & Europe, and...... heh What about Funny car Chaos? I think that is a great race but am wondering about Pro Nitro being involved (altho Dell did lose to a TA/FC car in Dallas).
 
Those bracket races are fueled soley by the back gate entry fees and have less fans in the stands than a porta potty match race in death valley. A few post ago there was a post about a few of the big money races, just a scant few as opposed to the 66+ plus races in the Dirt Late Model world.


TopFuel@Lions
Talladega Announcer
 
A friend once told me...

"90% of the professional golfers win 10% of the money, and 10% of the professional golfers win 90% of the money."

Not sure how that fits here. I saw a show on the golf channel a while back that had the host following a young new pro golfer while on his first year on tour. He was touring in a 25 year old Winnebago motorhome staying at parks and campgrounds, using rental cars along the way. While at the diving range just before the tournament started the host asked the golfer what he has taken away from his experience so far on tour. He said it's interesting how he survives by sleeping at night across the street from the golf course in his old motorhome while the guy right next to him in the T-box has his Lear Jet parked at the airport. He was standing next to Phil Michelson.
 
Mark, since I haven't been following the Dirt Late Model races, and I know this is a pain in the butt... but could you please educate us on how they promote their races?
  1. Do the cars all follow the same set of rules pretty well nationwide?
  2. How long is a typical race day in the stands for the spectators?
  3. Do the majority of fans show up for the beginning of time trials and stay all the way to the last checkered flag?
  4. Or, does the majority of the fans show up near the end of qualifying and stay to the last checkered flag?
  5. How many classes and/or races are run on a race day?
  6. How long in hours/minutes is a typical high dollar dirt track race?
  7. For the million $ race, what's a typical ticket cost?
  8. For the other races that pay the winner less than $75k, what does the typical ticket cost?
  9. Do the bigger paying races draw a large TV or livestreamed crowd?
  10. Are there lots of big corporation advertising on the TV/livestream shows?
It's my guess that a newbie spectator can figure out what's happening on the dirt track without a knowledgeable friend giving them a huge amount of details. That's a tough issue for drag racing as we have multitudes of classes with specific rules and procedures for each. Add in the super long day to just follow one class (like Pro Mod), makes it hard to impossible for the typical fan to hang around for the final round. That doesn't bode well for their buying a ticket at the next event... unless it's at a cheap ticket price. And cheap ticket prices produce cheap winner purses.
 
One other thing to consider. Dirt track races involve maybe a handful of classes or types of cars for the event, At least the one's I've been to. Payouts aren't spread very thin. NHRA events have several classes that are expecting to get something back. You have TF, FC, PS, PM, PSB, Comp, TS, TD, TA/FC, TAD, SS, SG, SC, Stock, the guy in the jet car, the wheel stander, the guy launching T-shirts into the grand stands, etc. I know some of he classes self fund through entry fees, but it's still a consideration.
 
Old21stud said:
Mark, since I haven't been following the Dirt Late Model races, and I know this is a pain in the butt... but could you please educate us on how they promote their races?
  1. Do the cars all follow the same set of rules pretty well nationwide?
  2. How long is a typical race day in the stands for the spectators?
  3. Do the majority of fans show up for the beginning of time trials and stay all the way to the last checkered flag?
  4. Or, does the majority of the fans show up near the end of qualifying and stay to the last checkered flag?
  5. How many classes and/or races are run on a race day?
  6. How long in hours/minutes is a typical high dollar dirt track race?
  7. For the million $ race, what's a typical ticket cost?
  8. For the other races that pay the winner less than $75k, what does the typical ticket cost?
  9. Do the bigger paying races draw a large TV or livestreamed crowd?
  10. Are there lots of big corporation advertising on the TV/livestream shows?
It's my guess that a newbie spectator can figure out what's happening on the dirt track without a knowledgeable friend giving them a huge amount of details. That's a tough issue for drag racing as we have multitudes of classes with specific rules and procedures for each. Add in the super long day to just follow one class (like Pro Mod), makes it hard to impossible for the typical fan to hang around for the final round. That doesn't bode well for their buying a ticket at the next event... unless it's at a cheap ticket price. And cheap ticket prices produce cheap winner purses.
Click to expand...
Below is my view from my area, Mark correct anything needed

1. For the most part the big late model series are pretty close in which with a few changes you can run quite a few series. even myself running modifieds i can pretty much run anywhere with a few changes
2. Usually no more than 5 hours
3. Most fans show up from the beginning of hot laps and usually stay until the end
4. see above
5. It depends on the track on what they want to run for support classes, generally in my area its maybe 1 or 2 support classes for the night
6. If you are talking about how long they race, obviously qualifying, heats are usually the same, but features can vary quite a bit. 50 to 100 laps and time for the race will depend on size the track as well
7. Not sure, maybe Mark can help
8. In my area say like some 20k events, tickets for fans might be around $25
9. Almost all the races in my area can be watched online now with either pay per race or yearly subscription
10. The national series have big sponsor, like Lucas and their dirt series

As far as fans, drag racing is all day, starting in the morning, catching a dirt race for a few hours in the evening is much easier
I have a dragstrip and dirt track 15 minutes from each other and have brought both cars as after the bracket race i head over to the dirt track to race. I enjoy explaining both and why i like them both, each one is exciting in a different way. dirt guys ask whats so exciting about going straight, drag racers ask isnt that boring just going around in circles all night, lol

Another thing Mark mentioned was back gate and entry fee. I have always paid less entry running dirt than I ever have drag racing, fans help pay the purse
 
Randy said:
A friend once told me...

"90% of the professional golfers win 10% of the money, and 10% of the professional golfers win 90% of the money."

Not sure how that fits here. I saw a show on the golf channel a while back that had the host following a young new pro golfer while on his first year on tour. He was touring in a 25 year old Winnebago motorhome staying at parks and campgrounds, using rental cars along the way. While at the diving range just before the tournament started the host asked the golfer what he has taken away from his experience so far on tour. He said it's interesting how he survives by sleeping at night across the street from the golf course in his old motorhome while the guy right next to him in the T-box has his Lear Jet parked at the airport. He was standing next to Phil Michelson.
Click to expand...
Golf only pays back to the cut on Friday, looked a couple of times at payouts to golfers that played on Saturday and Sunday and the last place guy on Sunday can still haul in over a hundred grand, of course the importance of event effects that overall payout
 
dr flames said:
Golf only pays back to the cut on Friday, looked a couple of times at payouts to golfers that played on Saturday and Sunday and the last place guy on Sunday can still haul in over a hundred grand, of course the importance of event effects that overall payout
Click to expand...

Don't forget companies have endorsement contracts with the big names, ie Tiger, who at one time got $100 million from Nike I believe.
 
Same can be said for tennis or an international soccer team.

When you're a multi-billion dollar company whats $10 or $20 million to be a title sponsor for an event? It's all a write-off for advertising and promotional expense.

You gotta know for endorsement deals like Tiger's there's more to it than play golf turnements. There's promotional appearances as well as performance insentives too.
 
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