Countdown doing its job? (1 Viewer)

Leebone · Nov 12, 2023

The one time I didn't like the countdown was years ago. Robert was in 10th place going into the countdown. He finished ahead of Ashley Force, who SHOULD have won the Championship. If not for the clown down, Ashley would've been the champion.

Ramjet · Nov 13, 2023

Leebone said:
The one time I didn't like the countdown was years ago. Robert was in 10th place going into the countdown. He finished ahead of Ashley Force, who SHOULD have won the Championship. If not for the clown down, Ashley would've been the champion.

Should-A Would-A Could-A
Don’t count. If the Queen would have had different plumbing she Would-A Could-A and maybe Should-A been the King. It has been this way so long now everyone knows the game. If you don’t have a ton of parts for the whole season you do what you have to to be in the game at tha end.

GumbyWVU · Nov 13, 2023

z28 said:
Steve would have won TF. I don't know about others

Yep. I'm sure there's been many others too, but don't know which ones exactly. One thing for certain, as I've said before, it's no way at all benefitted the "smaller" teams.

none · Nov 13, 2023

Leebone said:
The one time I didn't like the countdown was years ago. Robert was in 10th place going into the countdown. He finished ahead of Ashley Force, who SHOULD have won the Championship. If not for the clown down, Ashley would've been the champion.

If I remember correctly, that is also the time Robert ran John while trying to make the countdown and John's car mysteriously turned right allowing Robert to make it in to countdown....... or was it left

z28 · Nov 13, 2023

GumbyWVU said:
Yep. I'm sure there's been many others too, but don't know which ones exactly. One thing for certain, as I've said before, it's no way at all benefitted the "smaller" teams.

the benefit for the small teams is being able to say they make the playoffs and you never know who might get hot for 6 races. Most of the small teams would have no chance at all under the old system. The strategy has certainly changed for the bigger guys with way more emphasis on being ready for the countdown.

z28 · Nov 13, 2023

none said:
If I remember correctly, that is also the time Robert ran John while trying to make the countdown and John's car mysteriously turned right allowing Robert to make it in to countdown....... or was it left

it got out of the groove really fast.

GumbyWVU · Nov 14, 2023

z28 said:
the benefit for the small teams is being able to say they make the playoffs and you never know who might get hot for 6 races. Most of the small teams would have no chance at all under the old system. The strategy has certainly changed for the bigger guys with way more emphasis on being ready for the countdown.

That makes sense; but I don't think it has ever really helped per the results.

zippy · Nov 16, 2023

Here are the REAL results

DRIVER	PAI	RESET	FINAL	NCP	RR

TOP FUEL
Steve Torrence	1186	2091	2601	1696	1
Justin Ashley	1250	2121	2513	1642	2
Leah Pruett	954	2063	2592	1483	3
Doug Kalitta	867	2046	2649	1470	4
Antron Brown	1076	2077	2423	1422	5
Mike Salinas	855	2033	2465	1287	6
Brittany Force	943	2053	2352	1242	7
Austin Prock	838	2025	2349	1162	8
Clay Millican	799	2013	2276	1062	9
Josh Hart	768	2000	2280	1048	10

FUNNY CAR
Matt Hagan	1139	2090	2628	1677	1
Robert Hight	1068	2076	2616	1608	2
Ron Capps	1250	2114	2453	1589	3
Bob Tasca III	985	2066	2611	1530	4
Chad Green	914	2036	2445	1323	5
Tim Wilkerson	902	2020	2409	1291	6
J.R. Todd	930	2058	2332	1204	7
John Force	799	2015	2385	1169	8
Alexis DeJoria	926	2047	2264	1143	9
Cruz Pedregon	738	2000	2319	1057	10


PRO STOCK
Dallas Glenn	1114	2108	2446	1452	1
Erica Enders	816	2076	2695	1435	2
Matt Hartford	937	2083	2564	1418	3
Greg Anderson	725	2035	2591	1281	4
Aaron Stanfield	745	2048	2539	1236	5
Troy Coughlin Jr.	801	2067	2450	1184	6
Deric Kramer	782	2056	2332	1058	7
Kyle Koretsky	668	2024	2375	1019	8
Camrie Caruso	656	2011	2286	931	9
Cristian Cuadra	551	2000	2293	844	10

PS MOTORCYCLE
Gaige Herrera	1055	2113	2877	1819	1
Eddie Krawiec	657	2062	2663	1258	2
Hector Arana Jr	717	2076	2543	1184	3
Matt Smith	729	2084	2470	1115	4
Angie Smith	617	2056	2312	873	5
Steve Johnson	535	2042	2334	827	6
Jianna Evaristo	391	2010	2358	739	7
Chase Van Sant	503	2032	2254	725	8
Marc Ingwersen	393	2020	2326	699	9
Kelly Clontz	373	2000	2243	616	10


*PAI	Points after Indy
*RESET	NHRA reset points after indy
*FINAL	Final standings after Pomona 2
*NCP	Non-countdown point totals
*RR	Real results (standings)

mikebcurve · Nov 16, 2023

That’s assuming everyone would have used the same strategy without the countdown.

n/a · Nov 16, 2023

Much thanks Kevin.

Paul · Nov 16, 2023

mikebcurve said:
That’s assuming everyone would have used the same strategy without the countdown.

Exactly! We don't live in the land of "if", there was a Countdown and those results are what matters.

mick · Nov 17, 2023

Paul said:
......... those results are what matters.

...... it is what matters to maters

GumbyWVU · Nov 17, 2023

zippy said:
Here are the REAL results

DRIVER PAI RESET FINAL NCP RR
TOP FUEL
Steve Torrence
1186
2091
2601
1696
1
Justin Ashley
1250
2121
2513
1642
2
Leah Pruett
954
2063
2592
1483
3
Doug Kalitta
867
2046
2649
1470
4
Antron Brown
1076
2077
2423
1422
5
Mike Salinas
855
2033
2465
1287
6
Brittany Force
943
2053
2352
1242
7
Austin Prock
838
2025
2349
1162
8
Clay Millican
799
2013
2276
1062
9
Josh Hart
768
2000
2280
1048
10
FUNNY CAR
Matt Hagan
1139
2090
2628
1677
1
Robert Hight
1068
2076
2616
1608
2
Ron Capps
1250
2114
2453
1589
3
Bob Tasca III
985
2066
2611
1530
4
Chad Green
914
2036
2445
1323
5
Tim Wilkerson
902
2020
2409
1291
6
J.R. Todd
930
2058
2332
1204
7
John Force
799
2015
2385
1169
8
Alexis DeJoria
926
2047
2264
1143
9
Cruz Pedregon
738
2000
2319
1057
10
PRO STOCK
Dallas Glenn
1114
2108
2446
1452
1
Erica Enders
816
2076
2695
1435
2
Matt Hartford
937
2083
2564
1418
3
Greg Anderson
725
2035
2591
1281
4
Aaron Stanfield
745
2048
2539
1236
5
Troy Coughlin Jr.
801
2067
2450
1184
6
Deric Kramer
782
2056
2332
1058
7
Kyle Koretsky
668
2024
2375
1019
8
Camrie Caruso
656
2011
2286
931
9
Cristian Cuadra
551
2000
2293
844
10
PS MOTORCYCLE
Gaige Herrera
1055
2113
2877
1819
1
Eddie Krawiec
657
2062
2663
1258
2
Hector Arana Jr
717
2076
2543
1184
3
Matt Smith
729
2084
2470
1115
4
Angie Smith
617
2056
2312
873
5
Steve Johnson
535
2042
2334
827
6
Jianna Evaristo
391
2010
2358
739
7
Chase Van Sant
503
2032
2254
725
8
Marc Ingwersen
393
2020
2326
699
9
Kelly Clontz
373
2000
2243
616
10
*PAI Points after Indy
*RESET NHRA reset points after indy
*FINAL Final standings after Pomona 2
*NCP Non-countdown point totals
*RR Real results (standings)

Very interesting, thanks for posting. I'd love to see what it looks like every year since it started.

GumbyWVU · Nov 17, 2023

mikebcurve said:
That’s assuming everyone would have used the same strategy without the countdown.

What other strategies are there? You either want to win the race or you don't.

If you mean that certain teams just mail it in because they are not going to win, then that to me undermines having the countdown.

I guess, to close the loop of the thread, I don't know that I have ever heard what the official reason of the countdown is, in order to answer the original question of is it doing its job?

z28 · Nov 17, 2023

GumbyWVU said:
What other strategies are there? You either want to win the race or you don't.

If you mean that certain teams just mail it in because they are not going to win, then that to me undermines having the countdown.

I guess, to close the loop of the thread, I don't know that I have ever heard what the official reason of the countdown is, in order to answer the original question of is it doing its job?

The strategy on the part of NHRA was to increase attendance, viewership, and excitement until seasons end by keeping the points race close. By having the countdown and bonus points in the final it does tend to keep points counts much closer. That's a win for NHRA. For the teams, they tend to try to save their best for last. They may choose to do more testing in the regular season when they are comfortable in the points knowing they are getting in the countdown. In TF and FC they will keep back clutch discs they know are good for the CD races and I'm sure the PS and PSB guys keep back their best stuff as well. So the CD does change the way they race. If I know the last six races is where I can makeup the most ground I would do the same thing. If you're on a tight budget it means more to you to do that and if you are a Top 5 team you may not want to give away any performance advantage you may have in new parts. It's a pretty small world in that level of competition so if I have something I know will make me faster and I'm comfortable in the points I'll save it for when I really need it before the other guys see and catch up.

mick · Nov 17, 2023

can't deny the tension felt as vegas and pomona approach, and both nitro classes decided on last day of season.
can't figure out how so few of us are hooked on this sport our whole lives, and so many barely even care, much less even know it exists.
we are the fortunate ones.

none · Nov 17, 2023

At least with the fuel cars, I have always said the key is to get people to the track to experience it in person. It doesn't translate to TV. It's not just seeing the cars but actually feeling them and even smelling them. It is almost a visceral feeling. I have never heard anyone after experiencing fuel cars run up close say eh... that was lame...............

you · Nov 17, 2023

mick said:
...... it is what matters to maters

There’s multiple mutterings on mater matters

GumbyWVU · Nov 19, 2023

z28 said:
The strategy on the part of NHRA was to increase attendance, viewership, and excitement until seasons end by keeping the points race close. By having the countdown and bonus points in the final it does tend to keep points counts much closer. That's a win for NHRA. For the teams, they tend to try to save their best for last. They may choose to do more testing in the regular season when they are comfortable in the points knowing they are getting in the countdown. In TF and FC they will keep back clutch discs they know are good for the CD races and I'm sure the PS and PSB guys keep back their best stuff as well. So the CD does change the way they race. If I know the last six races is where I can makeup the most ground I would do the same thing. If you're on a tight budget it means more to you to do that and if you are a Top 5 team you may not want to give away any performance advantage you may have in new parts. It's a pretty small world in that level of competition so if I have something I know will make me faster and I'm comfortable in the points I'll save it for when I really need it before the other guys see and catch up.

Ok, we have no way of knowing if attendance has increased because those numbers are never released. So the countdown has failed there.

Viewership - inconclusive at best, and hard to really measure the impact because of air times, pre-emptions, etc. Neither fail or succeed.

Excitement - not sure how that's measured or quantified. There were many years prior to the countdown that where decided at the last couple races, just as now with a countdown a championship could be and has been also determined in the third to last or next to last race. If that's a "win" then I'd call it a pyrhric one as far as many fans go. And no "small" teams have won a championship as a result of it.

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Countdown doing its job? (1 Viewer)

Leebone

Ramjet

GumbyWVU

none

z28

z28

GumbyWVU

zippy

mikebcurve

n/a

Paul

mick

GumbyWVU

GumbyWVU

z28

mick

none

you

GumbyWVU

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