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Pro Stock - question(s) and thoughts on the whole body thing....

#1
We all have voiced our thoughts on the class basically being all 1 car - the Camaro. I'll start by asking this: Does a chassis builder have to ask manufacturer permission before they can build a Pro Stock body?

If not, why hasn't just one chassis builder tried something else? Pro Mod has the C7 Corvette bodies, why not Pro Stock? Cadillac has an ATS-V coupe that would look good as a Pro Stock. Yeah, they're GMs. So countering that.... Ford has the Mustang and now that you can use the DRCE3 they might be competitive. Would love to see the Challenger but from what I read they can't scale it down far enough. Hell, I'll even take some imports. BMW 4 series or Mercedes C-Class Coupe, for example. Before anyone says, "Pro Stock is all about factory muscle!" The C-Class coupe is available with a 503 hp V8.

Speaking of the engine, since GM seems to be the only one interested in making a Pro Stock engine how about the NHRA releasing a spec block based on the DRCE3 that all manufacturers would have to use as a base and they only need to develop the heads and internals.

Or really, the biggest question of all.... is the lack of variety a sign that teams have "given up" and are just coasting on what time the class has left. Never mind that if that is the case, it could be due to.... lack of participation, both in body styles and drivers.
 
#2
2018 NHRA RULE AMENDMENTS


SECTION 17: PRO STOCK, DESIGNATION (Page 1) (12/4/2017)
PRO, preceded by car number.
Reserved for 2009 or later NHRA accepted 2- door or 4-door coupe or sedan (domestic or foreign) production vehicles.
Any currently approved engine combination may be used in any currently approved body, regardless of the manufacturer.
Body, drivetrain, chassis, etc. may not be altered, modified, or
relocated, except as outlined in Requirements & Specifications.

Minimum weight at conclusion of run: 2,350 pounds, including driver.
Minimum weight on the rear axle at conclusion of run: 1,100 pounds, including driver.
Once an engine is used in a vehicle at an event, that engine cannot be used in
another vehicle for the duration of the event
.
Engine shall consist short block and heads, and will be serialized
or otherwise identified at each event.



NHRA approved.....
 

RM FAN

Nitro Member
#3
Hell, I'll even take some imports. BMW 4 series or Mercedes C-Class Coupe, for example. Before anyone says, "Pro Stock is all about factory muscle!" The C-Class coupe is available with a 503 hp V8.

Factory muscle does not mean american only besides that shipped sailed away in the 70's. I understand what you are saying and completely agree with you on seeing the different body styles. But its that kind of thinking that PS=american and why the Imports/american car companies along with the next generation are not interested in PS.
 
#4
you don't build a Pro Stock out of a Mercedes or BMW, Aston Martin or Maserati.....you don't buy these cars, you lease them. Nobody wants to be around for the repairs after the warranty runs out!
 
#5
you don't build a Pro Stock out of a Mercedes or BMW, Aston Martin or Maserati.....you don't buy these cars, you lease them. Nobody wants to be around for the repairs after the warranty runs out!
You have a point.... In order to truly have the Mercedes or BMW experience in a Pro Stock the chassis builder would engineer all the electronics to fail one day after the warranty expires. :p
 
#7
just imagine what an oil change on one of these would be between rounds....................
Funny you say that. A former colleague of mine is friends with a guy that runs a dealership specializing in high-end pre-owned luxury cars. His friend called him up saying he just got a few years old Bentley GT with very little miles on a trade and asked if he was interested in seeing it. So he goes and sees it, falls in love and wants to buy it. After all, a used Bentley for the price of a high-end BMW 5 series! But before he could sign the papers his friend says, "Before you sign I can't in good conscience sell you this car without telling you the next bit of info." My colleague asks if it's been in a wreck or flood. Friend tells him "no the car's mint." Colleague asks what's the issue. Friend says, "Dude, oil changes can only be done at the dealer and they are $1000." Needless to say my colleague didn't end up buying the car.
 

RM FAN

Nitro Member
#8
You would build a Honda, BMW like you build any other PS car. What does changing the oil have to do with anything? If a 1,000 oil change scares you away from buying an exotic car then you could not afford one in the first place. There's a McLaren F1 that cost $8,000 to change the oil and I guarantee the owners could careless.
I bet a BMW or Honda would have great aero though.
 

Jeff

Nitro Member
#10
I once saw a labor guide price to replace an evaporator on an E Class. Something like 22 hours. :(
It's essentially the most buried part on any car, not just a Mercedes.

Just sold my youngest son's F150 the other day. Used that truck to teach my son about cars. We had the cab off of it 8 or 10 times (common way to remove/work on the driveline). After a few years it was supercharged, intercooled, and every bit of the truck's 4wd driveline could handle the 13 lbs of boost and roughly 600 hp it made. Once he thought the heater core had a leak and pulled the entire steering column, dash and halved the HVAC box to replace the heater core. Got it back together with nary a rattle or squeak (not bad for a 20 year old kid). If you have the right tools, all of these cars are sort of fun to work on. My wife drives some pretty potent Mercedes coupes, after they go out of warranty I work on them if at all possible .... yes some special tools, but far from impossible. Over the last decade with a couple of SLs, I would say the repair frequency is no worse than any of the Ford SUVs and Powerstroke trucks we own.

Back before the WWW had as much data, I drove an H1 Hummer and a Jaguar XJ .... the XJ frequently wouldn't start so I bought a second one so I could figure out what was wrong with the first one. To say the least the XJ was frustrating but beautiful to my eye. The Hummer got a lot of miles on it, but it is still the car with the least net cost of ownership I've ever owned. I later had a supercharged XJR sedan. I would occasionally take it to an 1/8th mile track nearby where 8.50 1/8ths were easy and fun. After a couple of handfuls of those sessions the tranny stopped regularly using certain gears. Dealer said it had a 400 hp engine and a 350 hp tranny .... way back then that was fast! hah!
 
#11
Funny you say that. A former colleague of mine is friends with a guy that runs a dealership specializing in high-end pre-owned luxury cars. His friend called him up saying he just got a few years old Bentley GT with very little miles on a trade and asked if he was interested in seeing it. So he goes and sees it, falls in love and wants to buy it. After all, a used Bentley for the price of a high-end BMW 5 series! But before he could sign the papers his friend says, "Before you sign I can't in good conscience sell you this car without telling you the next bit of info." My colleague asks if it's been in a wreck or flood. Friend tells him "no the car's mint." Colleague asks what's the issue. Friend says, "Dude, oil changes can only be done at the dealer and they are $1000." Needless to say my colleague didn't end up buying the car.

a couple years ago I fixed a headliner in a Bentley Continental GT...you know, when the headliner falls on yer haid in your Buick Regal or Chevy Celebrity because the foam evaporates...Bentleys aren't immune to it either. The dealer wanted $8000 for a new shell with new foam and a "close match" leather on it. I took it out and put new foam in between the board and his correct leather.....shop charged him $1200 and that included a total detail for his car too.
 
#12
Jaguar XJ .... the XJ frequently wouldn't start so I bought a second one so I could figure out what was wrong with the first one.
Typical of Jaguars, you have to buy two.... one as a main and one as a backup when your main one is in the shop getting fixed. Which happens a lot.
 

JON

Nitro Member
#13
Typical of Jaguars, you have to buy two.... one as a main and one as a backup when your main one is in the shop getting fixed. Which happens a lot.
That is an old cliche which has out-lasted reality. A salutary lesson in how long it takes to shake off a (richly deserved!) bad name.

The fact is, Jaguars are reliable cars and have been for decades. This was achieved under the Ford ownership period when Jaguar was given Ford’s quality control procedures and persuaded to actually follow them - something Ford did not always achieve with the Ford division :)

I never saw a Jaguar Pro Stocker but in Europe there was a German fella who ran a Mercedes body with a Hemi during the DaimlerChrysler era.

It was not that quick but looked and sounded very cool!
 
#14
Yeah, when they were under Ford ownership their quality improved to actually decent levels. Then Ford sold them to Tata Motors and their quality went into the crapper again. Not only that, but I didn't like the redesign of the XJ - it went from a retro stylist car to one that looks just like any other European luxury car. Oh, and when the new XJ was first released a major automotive news publication was given one to test out and a hood latch sensor went on the fritz and the audio system failed. But then again it's common knowledge that Indian companies only care about profits and to hell with quality (Just stating facts, too bad most people are afraid to say it). Thankfully, Tata Motors was forced to realize that quality matters in today's automotive world and they have worked to improve it, now current model Jags are actually pretty decent. Land Rovers are a different story. I'll never understand why people shell out over $100K for an SUV that will spend more time in the dealer service bay than on the road when they can get a GMC Yukon XL Denali that carries more stuff, tows more and is much more reliable for much less money.
 

sdwarf36

Nitro Member
#15
There is some magic smell in Land Rover interiors that make people think they are great-no matter how much time is spent fixing it. I worked for a guy that swore how good of a car it was-no matter how many thousands he threw at it. And then there's Doug Demuro who made his fame from his Range Rover-and Carmax 6 year warrantee .
 
#16
when I worked at a Jag/Range Rover dealer many years ago, Included in the 30,000 mile service on the Range Rover was the heater core replacement.
 

Jeff

Nitro Member
#17
when I worked at a Jag/Range Rover dealer many years ago, Included in the 30,000 mile service on the Range Rover was the heater core replacement.
Now that is funny.

Ordered my wife a Black Label Lincoln Navigator L recently. Really nice car in most respects, same driveline as the current Ford Raptor so more than willing to get out of its own way. Took one of my clients to lunch in it recently .... he texted me over the weekend that his wife now has replaced her Range Rover with one. Funny thing the Range Rover was finicky enough that they never got rid of their high mileage Tahoe until they got the Lincoln.

On a related sidenote, I did manage to finally acquire my "24 hours of Lemons" base chassis this weekend. Now to pull it apart and start fabricating the roll cage for it .... well, after it gets trailered over 1000 miles home. If you are ever somewhat bored, the Lemons rule book is a fun read. Talk about avoiding the problems of pro stock .... this racing is as grass roots as you can get! Funny, I think the person we bought the chassis from may end up being one of our four required drivers (me and my two sons being the other three .... the only actual racecar driver in our family has declined to participate in this endeavor).
 
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#18
Wow, this topic didn't get derailed! :D

Anyway,

We all have voiced our thoughts on the class basically being all 1 car - the Camaro. I'll start by asking this: Does a chassis builder have to ask manufacturer permission before they can build a Pro Stock body?

If not, why hasn't just one chassis builder tried something else? Pro Mod has the C7 Corvette bodies, why not Pro Stock? Cadillac has an ATS-V coupe that would look good as a Pro Stock. Yeah, they're GMs. So countering that.... Ford has the Mustang and now that you can use the DRCE3 they might be competitive. Would love to see the Challenger but from what I read they can't scale it down far enough. Hell, I'll even take some imports. BMW 4 series or Mercedes C-Class Coupe, for example. Before anyone says, "Pro Stock is all about factory muscle!" The C-Class coupe is available with a 503 hp V8.

Speaking of the engine, since GM seems to be the only one interested in making a Pro Stock engine how about the NHRA releasing a spec block based on the DRCE3 that all manufacturers would have to use as a base and they only need to develop the heads and internals.

Or really, the biggest question of all.... is the lack of variety a sign that teams have "given up" and are just coasting on what time the class has left. Never mind that if that is the case, it could be due to.... lack of participation, both in body styles and drivers.
I don't know if a manufacturer's permission is required to build a PS body, but the body design has to be approved by NHRA. When I saw the first Camaro PS body (just a shell in flat black) my first thought was "that thing is so sliced-n-diced it's NOWHERE NEAR a stock Camaro." Yet NHRA approved it. And as you mention "scaling down" the Challenger, it really summarizes the whole problem with Pro Stock and why fans have lost interest. They look nothing like a production car - and haven't for over a decade. And that's at least partly why the class has been fading into oblivion. My 2 cents.
 

ironpony

Nitro Member
#20
they can keep everything the same as it is now except for factory sheetmetal..........................has to be factory sheetmetal, slightly tuned to fit the big tires and EFI bump.
 

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