
07-04-2007, 01:13 PM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somers NY
Posts: 586
Verified Member
|
|
|
Pro Stock Question ?
The way NHRA is running PS now most cars are "Cookie Cutters" or almost the exact same.. of course each engine builder has his heads, cam, etc... but NHRA even has a limit as to how much a wrist pin can weigh... What I'm asking would it be be better or worse for PS if the following rules were implemented? Of course there may have to be some rule changes but here its my thoughts on a starting set up..
1. All cars must weigh 2150 (or whatever is agreed on)
2. 500 Ci engine block must be the same as the body, and run on gas supplied by NHRA. No power adders i.e. NO2, turbo, etc.
3. No Electronics i.e. traction control, shocks, or delay box...
NO other engine restrictions.. so if an engine builder wants a 4 or 5 valve head or run fuel injection let him have it..(same as Comp eliminator) as long as the CI is 500 any bore & stroke combination, that = 500 ci or less...
__________________
"When I die, I want to die like my grandfather, who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming in panic like the passengers in his car."
Last edited by John Panuzzo; 07-04-2007 at 01:16 PM.
|

07-04-2007, 02:22 PM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Peoria, Arizona
Posts: 1,998
Verified Member
|
|
|
Re: Pro Stock Question ?
Ken Black fan huh?
One of the major reasons for the myriad of rules in PS is the cost.
Unobtainium isn't cheap but it's sure lighter, stronger and only available to those who've sold their huge corporations.
|

07-04-2007, 02:48 PM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hurricaneville, formally NY.
Posts: 1,413
Verified Member
|
|
|
Re: Pro Stock Question ?
I have heard the reason why fuel injection is not allowed in PS is because of a A) cost and B) It would make it easier to cheat.
__________________
Q: What do you call cheese that doesn't belong to you?
A: Nacho cheese!
|

07-04-2007, 02:55 PM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 115
Verified Member
|
|
|
Re: Pro Stock Question ?
I'd rather Pro Stock run A/SM rules. At least they look like something I could buy at the dealer.They're expensive to buy I know, but at least they'd be less expensive to race (maybe). Or.....Do away with the current PS class. Let the current PS guys switch to nitrous since that's basically what they've become anyhow (I know, nobody ever ran nitrous)  . Let current PS cars run nitrous and 800ci engines. Then keep pro mod for supercharged and turbo cars.That way PS becomes interesting again and pro mod gets the old "gasser" look (well sort of).
Then again, those fourth of July party beverages may be taking over my thought process.
|

07-04-2007, 03:06 PM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somers NY
Posts: 586
Verified Member
|
|
|
Re: Pro Stock Question ?
Both of you guys mention cost... YES I agree its expensive.. but do you think the cost of Unobtainium is gonna shut down many "competitive PS teams.. as it is now there are 6-8 that never qualify as it is.. suppose one of the low buck teams gets some "genius" that develops 4 valve heads that get 20 more HP then the few weight savings by using exotic material by the big buck teams wont matter as much..
As for cheating, by using FI .... I don't buy that as there are allegations of traction control etc. now & NHRA has NEVER found anything.. Back in the days of NO2 did NHRA ever find it... nooooo it took an explosion in the pits ...and we all know the Dodge boys never used it.. it was a B&E that shut them down
Maybe someone who is more knowledgeable than I can explain how FI will promote cheating... if its electronic FI so what ? If teams are using traction control NOW.. NHRA sure hasn't found it.. what benefit would a team using FI have.. I "thought" one of the PS teams tried FI on the dyno a few yrs ago and could not make as much HP as carb engines?
__________________
"When I die, I want to die like my grandfather, who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming in panic like the passengers in his car."
Last edited by John Panuzzo; 07-04-2007 at 03:10 PM.
|

07-04-2007, 04:00 PM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Peoria, Arizona
Posts: 1,998
Verified Member
|
|
|
Re: Pro Stock Question ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Panuzzo
. . . If teams are using traction control NOW.. NHRA sure hasn't found it..
|
Carefully study the past 5 years' PS rule changes and you may discover that many of these rules implemented indicated that the NHRA did, in fact, find traction control or at least some device or combination of equipment that could be used to achieve it.
|

07-04-2007, 06:47 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 241
Verified Member
|
|
|
Re: Pro Stock Question ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Miller
Carefully study the past 5 years' PS rule changes and you may discover that many of these rules implemented indicated that the NHRA did, in fact, find traction control or at least some device or combination of equipment that could be used to achieve it.
|
A system could have been legally installed on a car as early as the mid 90s if you look at the rules and the available technology. I have never heard from any credible source that one was ever used.
A problem I ran into in the past and which is still present in 95% of professional drag racing pits is that everyone seems to have tunnel vision. There is some amazing technology out there, but it's unknown (or not being used) in drag racing.
Greg Anderson took the first step by leveraging NASCAR technology where it was useful. I'm not aware that anyone has stepped outside the racing venue for new materials or ideas. The pace of R&D that it takes to stay competitve makes it very hard for the usual suspects to have the time to find, verify, and test anything really new.
Fact: a division of NASA exists solely to help companies apply the extremely high technology developed by the space program. A team is going to have to have someone with a creative mind if they expect to connect the dots, as some of the advances don't show an apparent link to vehicle performance.
It all comes down to intent. Is Pro Stock a class of unlimited technology or is it a class of reasonably afforable technology? As in Top Fuel, that decision was made years ago.
|

07-04-2007, 06:51 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 177
Verified Member
|
|
|
Re: Pro Stock Question ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Panuzzo
The way NHRA is running PS now most cars are "Cookie Cutters" or almost the exact same.. of course each engine builder has his heads, cam, etc... but NHRA even has a limit as to how much a wrist pin can weigh... What I'm asking would it be be better or worse for PS if the following rules were implemented? Of course there may have to be some rule changes but here its my thoughts on a starting set up..
1. All cars must weigh 2150 (or whatever is agreed on)
2. 500 Ci engine block must be the same as the body, and run on gas supplied by NHRA. No power adders i.e. NO2, turbo, etc.
3. No Electronics i.e. traction control, shocks, or delay box...
NO other engine restrictions.. so if an engine builder wants a 4 or 5 valve head or run fuel injection let him have it..(same as Comp eliminator) as long as the CI is 500 any bore & stroke combination, that = 500 ci or less...
|
I am quite sure they would all be 4 valve per cyl. Double overhead cam. The owners would likely save enough money in valve springs to pay for the new DOHC setup. 
|

07-04-2007, 10:12 PM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Akron, Ohio
Posts: 32
Verified Member
|
|
|
Re: Pro Stock Question ?
The RD cost to get a comparative cam and valve design would greatly out weigh the benefit of saving springs... $$imho$$
Michael
|

07-04-2007, 10:51 PM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Blaine, MN
Posts: 996
Verified Member
|
|
|
Re: Pro Stock Question ?
I know...
Stretch the wheelbase a little bit.
Open up the body rules to allow old body styles.
Let them run big wings, or mini fueler wings.
Let them run a blower.
Zoomies out the side.
You know..something like this
Maybe this way there will be no more traffic jam in the stands going down after the fuel cars run.
__________________
Go Hight!!!----4.63 
Prock Rocket 2008 Style
Last edited by Paul Songas; 07-04-2007 at 10:53 PM.
|

07-04-2007, 11:08 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Birmingham,Alabama
Posts: 248
Verified Member
|
|
|
Re: Pro Stock Question ?
When you have access to more than adequate funding coupled with access to NASCAR type engineers which Jason Line does,it will get you ahead of the pack. If there was a way to prove performance versus money spent,it would follow the current points standings very closely. There would probally be a couple of exceptions but it would be close.
|

07-05-2007, 04:26 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 42
Verified Member
|
|
|
Re: Pro Stock Question ?
The problem with all your mentioned changes. It goes back to one thing..
people WERE in fact running Nos and won races for a few years. Besides the ones everyone talks about. One other MEGA Dude even ran a SMALL amount of Nitro, mixed in with the OIL. When he got caught they asked he to take a hike for a Year. But because he had a High profile money. They let him run the Circus for a year with out making the show. Just so the company didn't ruin the wallets of glendora. Traction control was used when a drivers car made a spectical out of gear changes, when the in car cam show his hands not to be Hitting the Buttons.. Hence no more air shifters. which also ment one less place for a Leaky nos line to be fed into some where. oh and gee wiz the fuel cells being put in front of the car, is an added HINT the fuel lines in the car had problems as well. Shocks were tied into the ING. box to retard timing when they rebounded in an uncontroled manor. IE tire shake. ok now if you remember when jonh force was kicking ASS once right on TV his all but removed his fire suit. And proudly said Wow I won and all without a NOS bottle hidden in my fire suit..
hmmmmm I am sure if I think about this a tad more, I can enlighten you more.
So getting back to the basics.
They can NOT Police EVERYTHING or the cars would take a half a day to make 1 Round due to Inspection. The other thing is the way the rules are now. Is so the teams are not beign forced to Play XBOX, and realy jack up the price of the cars even more them they are now.
Like the Fuel cars if they want to Slow them down.. REMOVE the DATA box from the car on Sundays and see what that does.. Let the CRYING begin.. you will see an instant jump in the fun meter for the fans. Not knowing who is going to win.
Sure what your saying about 4v dhc heads and all the rest might make more power BUT... try changing 4-6 some times more valve springs on a 500 cu now.. no big deal.. try it on a DHC head.. haha see you tomorrow because you will be changing springs in time for 3rd round NOT 75 minutes.. but least you forget.. PS cars have a Less then 75 turn time for the Final because they get run First..
Good luck with your thought process on your new rules.
|

07-05-2007, 05:10 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wanganui , New Zealand
Posts: 319
Verified Member
|
|
|
Re: Pro Stock Question ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Wentworth
I am quite sure they would all be 4 valve per cyl. Double overhead cam. The owners would likely save enough money in valve springs to pay for the new DOHC setup. 
|
You mean like this

|

07-05-2007, 05:11 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wanganui , New Zealand
Posts: 319
Verified Member
|
|
|
Re: Pro Stock Question ?
|

07-05-2007, 07:40 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 481
Verified Member
|
|
|
Re: Pro Stock Question ?
Do you know what Bill France said when he saw that thing William  ?
|
| Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
|