Yeah Don, you know some of your friends and/or competitors are......and it sure doesn't hurt

Ridiculous

Does noboby want discuss the fact that NHRA is helping to kill Comp by not enforcing the rules. There are classes/cars right now that are dominating while running illegal cylinder heads. The political nature of NHRA's approval process is absurd. When they will approve a cylinder head that isn't even remotely legal... the category is doomed.

NHRA's inconsistency, or selective, rules enforcement is as much to blame for the severe escalation in cost as anything else.

When one class/classes is/are allowed to run a combination that would otherwise not be dominating it drives the cost up for the other classes in an effort remain competitve.

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Greg Stanley
2007 NorCal Top Comp Champion

If you want to discuss it, then be specific. Drive-by insinuations are just that and don't deserve to be discussed.

Comp has been for the last 40+ years a category where you out-spend or out-engineer your competition. On rare occasions, someone comes along with both and dominates.

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Paul, just another keyboard "expert"
www.ConceptsEngineering.com, check out the new "Animation" section
Check out altered construction

Who, specifically, is running illegal heads and how are they illegal?

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http://tinyurl.com/5uz3lt

Stanman........

Well my old friend....I almost personally take offense to the statement of illegal heads being predominate in Comp......

Since the Vegas Fall race the tech dept has pulled almost 60 heads, while confirming bore and stroke as well as spark plug location valve angle bore centers etc.

While records and qualifying are unaffected by the CIC, eliminations as we all know is.....

Don't you think someone who displays a 75 under pass lights the HMMMM
maybe its time to look under his heads situation.

At least one and as many as 4 heads are pulled at each Nat'l event, time allowing. At the ALLSTARS race EVERYONE pulled the heads.... and when Franky Aragona changed motors they had to pull that head too....

While most hate the CIC, it is an instant policeman.


I have been teching Comp for over 20 years now and have seen the technology advance 10 fold......They don't call it Complicated Eliminator for nothing. It is not for the weak of heart or pocketbook..it is not an entry level class


If the SC guys kill some index they will soon figure out when and when not to do that.....


Not trying to attack you Stanman ....Ya know we're pals from wayback

But your a little off base in my opinion

Cliff Ricci

Because I don't have a personal dog in the hunt I will not name the names of those running heads that should not be allowed.

I should clarify that there are certain heads being run that were approved by NHRA that should have never been allowed. They do not meet the criteria as stated in the rules for the class/classes they are being run in but NHRA approved them anyway... while at the same time denying approval of other heads.

If you think I'm off-base or don't know what the hell I'm talking about just wait and see. Especially you Cliff... don't surprised if some of the feces doesn't hit the fan at Vegas II.

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Greg Stanley
2007 NorCal Top Comp Champion

As noted above, I will not mention names that have been told to me. They will come out soon enough if NHRA takes action on the complaints that will soon surface.

The heads are not illegal at this time because NHRA approved them. But the heads should have never been approved. They are supposed to be a readily available head from an OEM manufacturer with OEM casting numbers and other specifications. The heads NHRA approved do not have the casting numbers in the OEM location and have other modifications that are not consistent with the OEM casting.

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Greg Stanley
2007 NorCal Top Comp Champion

Stanman

We are already planning our Vegas 2 teardown list........I personally haven't heard the complaints.....But I don't don't have my ear to the ground 24/7........As with all spec type classes the chatter spreads quickly, and sooner or later gets to the tech guys......You would be surprised how many racers find themselves in the tech trailer when no one is looking.....They say their piece and vanish as quickly as they appeared.We listen to everyone.

This is supposed to be a gentlemans sport.Where honesty and integrity matter........When someone doesn't display those virtue's we try to weed them out.......We are not perfect and can't be everything to everyone's likeing....But we really do try

If infact those people you know of have not been party to teardown this year......maybe they will before the season is over.......If Vegas 2 will be a feces feast ..thats great I love teardown!

Sometimes with pit chatter the facts are never clear.........But if someone with nads steps up and puts up the protest money ...then all is put to bed.....

Stanman for all the years you and I have had playful banter on these board,you know i respect your accumen and knowledge.....And I know you respect mine.We are both alittle rough around the edges............but want what's right.

And on a different note............How's married life? You coming to the Thanxgiving race????


Cliff

[Greg Stanley;163366: I should clarify that there are certain heads being run that were approved by NHRA that should have never been allowed. They do not meet the criteria as stated in the rules for the class/classes they are being run in but NHRA approved them anyway... while at the same time denying approval of other heads.]

This is nothing new! In the dim and distant past, the rule book said that a D/ED had to have inline valves and the Buick V6 was a dominate engine. Over night NHRA allowed the Chevy "Porcupine" head, that flowed at least 50cfm per port more than the best Buick head, to run in D/ED at the same weight/CI and index!

Needless to say a bunch of Buick cars were now uncompetitive!

[Anyone want to buy some real old Buick V6 Stuff? ]

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David Gerard

The main problem is that the NHRA does not stand firm on the rules they make in certain instances. Instead of nipping it in the bud when the first questionable item(s) appear, it is buried in red tape until there are 50 of the item(s) out there. Then a major lobby movement takes place to legalize the parts once the NHRA decides to investigate. By then its too late and the rulebook gets "ammended" to accomodate what should have and could have been plainly deemed a no-go. And there at least 2 instances that I can think of off of the top of my head that had a HUGE impact on the class(es) as a whole.

I never understood comp. Probably because I didn't want to. To me it was bracket racing where you can't break out.

If you are going to spend that much money on a race car, why not do it on something you can book into tracks as a match racer when not at a national event.

Don I couldn't agree more!!

This same conversation of Non-Rule Enforcement goes on everyday in NHRA Stock & Super Stock circles also.

Here's an example (and there's lots more out there)... There are LEGAL Stockers out there running with removable 2 piece dashes and removable transmission tunnels. I don't remember the factories ever offering these "options"... Its Bogus BS!!

There was a time in Stock Eliminator... IF you didn't have the right tail light lens / bezel in the car, you had to go home. Not anymore!

The problem is NHRA's doesn't want to enforce the class rules, (it takes too long), and they don't want a confrontation with anybody... So the flip side of adhering to the rules is that anything and everything is now legal.

And the Co$ts continue to rise!

Larry

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www.HotRodCarbs.com

Wow with everyones complaints of the rules being so relaxed...


Might as well throw a nitrous bottle and "stuff" in the fuel... NHRA obviously wont care lol

Jay

No offense......You still don't understand Comp.............


Cliff