I am confused. Are you under the impression that the G2 Buell is a mass produced motorcycle, sold to the general public for use on public roads?

Jay

Surely I'm pushing it pretty much, that's what discussions are for

To sum up a different point of view: Suzuki Motor Corporation, Harley-Davidson, Inc., and G2 Motorsports are motorcycle manufacturers. G2 Motorsports is the only one of those three who manufactures and sells NHRA legal Pro Stock motorcycles today. In a sense, Harley-Davidson sorta manufactures a Pro Stock bike but they don't sell it. The Suzuki Motor Corporation neither manufactures nor sells a Pro Stock bike.
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Stock? Sure, those G2 Buells don't come cheap and don't sell 45,000 units a year but in the same sense as a Bugatti Veyron, Koenigsegg CCX, Saleen S7 etc. the G2 Buell Pro Stock Bike is a stock production line vehicle out of the G2 Motorsports works.

The point was to think out of the box about what is the state of "stock" of a current NHRA PSM. In that regard a Pro Stock G2 Buell is a whole lot closer to 2 outa 3 of of the above than anything that comes out of the Suzuki and Harley-Davidson production lines and is up for purchase in their showrooms (simply because they don't sell PSM's but G2 does).

OK, nitpicking and out on the proverbial limb here, but by definition the G2 Buell (as designed, produced and sold by G2 Motorsports) is a mass produced motorcycle that is sold to racers who can fork up the bucks. The manufacturer puts up full spec's in public for a raceready G2 Buell Pro Stock bike that comes with options, a clear pricetag and partsnumbers for spares.

Now, what "mass produced" means is all in the eye of the beerholder (and a straightforward case for homologation rules that NHRA never will put into place due to the problems it would cause) but the Suzuki Motor Corporation and Harley-Davidson, Inc., obviously cannot match the G2 Motorsport production and sales of stock motorcycles that shows up in NHRA Pro Stock Motorcycle competition. "Stock" as in all the hardware comes from the manufacturer of the bike, not as in the case is from a 20 year-old Suzuki or the V-Rod stickers and R&D bucks come out of the MoCo headquarters.

As for "use on public roads", obviously not. I know a lot better than what you're trying to credit me for but my bad. If I gave any impression of implying anything to that effect then it was a mistake in my writing.

Regards
PiPPi
hrrp://HarleyDrags.com

You don't quite get the part about them supposedly being based on production street bikes, do you?

One more time...the Suzuki GSX-R, TL and Hayabusa PSM's were all based on production bikes and ran Suzuki GS based engines, the cases for which you can order at nearly any Suzuki dealer. I'm sure Jay could get you a set of cases if you want. They also used upper fairings that were the same size as a production bike and were not allowed to use over-sized air intakes (like the Buell's).


The Buell engine isn't based on a production engine, it's the wrong angle between the cylinders. There's also never been a model that came with big mailbox-sized ram-air ducts like they're also running.

The Harley engine is a specially designed racing engine that has nothing in common with a production Harley engine.

So according to NHRA's own rules, when they were originally let into the class, neither of the V-twins should have been allowed to compete.

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"I got a fever, and the only prescription... is more cowbell!"

Buell's and Hardley's suck!

I did write "To sum up a different point of view" The discussion above is actually applicable in other sanctions of Pro Stock motorcycle racing than NHRA but that's off-topic in here.

No, I don't have access to a 2008 NHRA Rulebook right now. If you have time to spare, what exactly do the current NHRA Pro Stock Bike rules state about "production street bikes"?

Regards
PiPPi
http://HarleyDrags.com

I think that NHRA is doing the class really wrong.... We have teams out there working there butts off trying to find horsepower just to get slapped in the face... Matt G. hit the perfect set up in the second roung of qualifying... I missed the set up so did the Harleys and so did the suzuki's... On race day all 3 makes were within 3 hunds of each other... I just don't understand the NHRA's motive here... As far as the big scoops on the buell, there 2 big for us... When S&S brought this buell to NHRA 4 or 5 years ago thats what they submitted... WE have tried to get them to let us put smaller scoops on but they won't let us... If you want to change something you have to make a whole new body design and then submitte it to NHRA.... The buell has 1 scoop on the left side so S&S evened it up by putting 1 on the right side also... I'm am right now building a new chassis and body design for the buell... And NHRA has been to the shop 3 times to see the bike... We are hoping to have the bike ready for the public after st. louis....

Matt, make sure you get that angle between the cylinders fixed too. That's also been wrong for several years.

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"I got a fever, and the only prescription... is more cowbell!"

Buell's and Hardley's suck!

There was nothing wrong and they took the opportunity to fix it.

The G2 Buell is not a mass produced motorcycle. Have they even made 20? George?

I think if you orderfed a Suzuki motor from Byron and asked then to get a Kosman chassis and provide you with a running bike, they would do it for a price. Would that make them a "mass" motorcycle producer also?

The part of this weight thing that was necessary was the Kawasaki weight. Muzzy is trying the impossible, using oem Kawasaki cases, so they do need the help so that they can at least get this one in the field. If they are able to make it run hard, you can bet they won't stay at 600 lbs.

Matt. Thanks for the insight.

Jay

Does anybody besides me see a resemblance to history here? Look back at the early pro stock car fiasco. Before they went to a standard weight/cu in formula for the cars there were weight changes of the week. What a mess it turned out to be and for a while ran off mopar.

Point of all this is they [NHRA] have not learned from history. Reflecting back to the early Pro Stock days and their attempts at an even playing field in TAD one would think that those messes would have made an impression, apparently not.

They also lost an excellent opportunity when the V twins first entered the races to produce a standard set of rules like pro stock cars and the other pro categories.

Looking at the bright side they won't have to go the doctors soon as they have excellent reflexes or as some call it, knee jerk reaction........too much too soon.

jim

I like the bike class but all this constant wieght breaks gets really old. Its like Nascar a few years back, every race they had to change the rules becuase one car brand was getting their butt handed to them.

To make a change after one race seems like a knee jerk reaction. Let them race, set the rules and make everyone perform to them. It really hurts those who bust their butts trying to find more hp to all of a sudden get more weight added. Do we have a cic in pro stock bike now?

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Pick The Winners
Click here for NHRA Points Petition

Gee, you mean you can't set a trend line based on one data point???

I've been pushing for all bikes to have engines with the same cubic inches since the V-twins were announced. I even said Suzuki should have been allowed to make a V-twin engine with the same cubic inches to stomp the Harley's and Buell's into the ground.

__________________
"I got a fever, and the only prescription... is more cowbell!"

Buell's and Hardley's suck!

The last couple of years have been crazy with all the weight changes etc. First of all, we've only had one race and Andrew in testing was wicked fast. Why dont you let is work itself out a few races. And no offense to Matt G but its not like he's always that fast. Maybe they just stumbled onto something at Gville. (I hope not, I like seeing others run well) but still. They should have waited a few races in my opinion.

The problem is once you start doing the weekly weight adjustment-when do you stop? I dont want to hear finish line interviews complaining that "we've been stuck 10lbs heavier than the other guy for the last 2 eventswhen are we gonna get a break?"

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--------------------------------------------------Moodus ,Ct. Home of the former Connecticut Dragway

This whole thing is ridiculous. One freaking race and they are making changes. One of the big reasons they are making changes is because of a certain someone who is complaining. He didn't qualify and has more sponsorship money than any team out there. He needs to stop *****ing and work harder, instead of making two test laps at Valdosta then leaving. How the hell do you expect to run good when you do that. Our team along with many others work our asses off to run good and find more power, then you have people that just think something should be given to them. Total bull****! Everyone out there right now is about the same. If you didn't see it at Gainesville you should have saw it at Valdosta. There were Suzuki's there running 2.49 down the back to our 2.52. They have just as much power as us, hell if not more. Some people just hit the set up and some people don't. Hey, that's racing. Sometimes the funny car guys hit the set up and some smoke the tires. You don't hear them complaining. NHRA definitely made the wrong decision here and I hopefully they will see it soon.