Yes, the four quickest on Saturday fill the 13 - 16th spots.

Look at it this way: After Friday is concluded (regardless of sessions completed, I've learned) we will have 12 provisional qualifiers. All other times from Friday will be thrown out since they wouldn't put you in the show.

After Saturday is concluded, the other four spots are filled from that day's quickest performers not already in the 1-12 spots.

But any position from 1 -12 can be gained in any of the sessions assuming that a Saturday run is quicker than someone's Friday run holding one of those spots.

Good weather scenario: with good weather throughout the weekend, performances are great every session and we'll see bumping all four sessions just like we did in previous years.

Bad weather scenario: The Friday night session is killer but it's hot and humid all day Saturday. The quickest 12 from Friday start Saturday in their provisional spots. Greg/Jeg/Dave missed badly on Friday but manages to run quick enough in the heat on Saturday to jump into the 10th positition. The 12th spot is bumped out and the previous 11th place moves to 12th.

As is often the case, no one else is able to improve. The four next quickest cars on Saturday who are not already in the 1-12th spots move in the 13th to 16th spots.

With the ladder set up the way it is, this may put a huge premium on qualifying 1-4 at the end of Saturday.

(edited for further thoughts)
Then again, the best position to end up in may be 5th. You wouldn't have to meet a team with strong momentum which had figured out a hot day / track better than anyone else. You'd meet someone who had a good cool weather / track tuneup but may have not figured out the hot weather / track yet.

The term provisionals threw up a Redflag! Please tell me that Teams aren't guaranteed a spot!

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Shift for Brains!!!!

There you go. Thank you Dan. I believe I have it figured out now. I'm a little slow on the uptake today.

As others have stated, the biggest effect will probably be felt in Pro Stock qualifying.

Be interested to hear what the teams think about this.

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AKA DrRocket

I think it is pretty simple and straightforward... If the air is good on Friday and really crappy on Saturday, the four quickest on Saturday flesh out the final four spots. This way if a heavy hitter has a Friday disaster during good air, they still have an opportunity to qualify if weather conditions tank.

I am not sure this is such a good idea with the fuel classes as track conditions more than weather seem to affect performance, however the naturally aspirated classes will benefit by reducing the "weather variable" and focusing more on comparative performance (fairness).

I assume in the event of a Saturday rainout, Friday's qualifying stands "as is".

No, not a NASCAR-style provisional, a dictionary-style provisional.

I used the term meaning you've earned the spot for the time being but are subject to being moved / bumped out at the end of qualifying.

If how you describe it is really how the new change is, then I don't like it.

Everyone has a chance to qualify on Friday night when the air is best. If "a heavy hitter has a Friday disaster during good air", then too bad. Better luck on Saturday or next week.

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I would think that in the above scenario that the 12th place car does not get bumped out but bumped down to 13th and the next 3 quickest would fill in the remaining spot. If he got bumped out in this situation, he/she would have to requalify as one of the 4 quickest on Saturday. That's just not right. The provisional guarantees the top 12 unless at least 5 cars run quicker than the 12th car on Saturday. Only then does that car have to be one of the quickest 16 to remain qualified. I could go into more scenarios but I think you'll get it.

Well Dave, I would never call you dumb, but this a really a good and simple change. At least on the weekends where weather is a factor, and a competitor has a bad run on Friday evening, there will still be a chance for them to come back and race Sunday.

Face it everyone, Friday Night qualifying has nothing to do with race day, the conditions are rarely, if ever the same, and tune ups are never the same. Friday Night is there for the fans, period. NHRA wasn't about to do away with the night time show, so this is a good alternative that makes it fair for all.

The only other way that I could think of doing it that would be fair to all is to average all 4 runs of the weekend for each team and take the top 16 averages for Sunday. However, that would add costs to the little guys.

You are correct Mike. It would take 5 cars improving to bump out number 12, however in the scenerio you quoted, where 3 cars ran good enough for 10th spot, then the provisional 11th car would race Sunday from the 15th spot, and the provisional 12th car would race Sunday from the 16th spot.

of course this doesn't address the issues/concerns/questions/accusations regarding track prep that lead to some fo the qualifying issues last season.


It also still does not look at the issues such as Chicago last year. I will not waste money again this year to watch a smoke fest for a few hours. If cchages like the countdown are made to appeal to fans, then I would think focussing on making the show more appealing would be a good idea

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Tact is for those not witty enough for sarcasm

Moot, not mute ... OK, I hear what you're saying Larry!

Here's the solution...

Keep the qualifying sessions as they were last year (and previously) and bump the Sunday field to accommodate how ever many cars come out to play.

Hey, you may start out with 50 PSB's, but at the end, there is still only one winner. Sure, the event would last all day, and half the night, but it would be some great racing.

Just start it on Saturday evening with a slower qualified bracket. That would give those guys a chance to improve their times, and the winner of that round jumps into the top bracket the next day somehow magically.

It could work with the Glendora bunch. Don't know why it wouldn't.



DLB

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Proverbs 17:27 Whoever restrains his words has knowledge, and he who has a cool spirit is a man of understanding. 28 Even a fool who keeps silent is considered wise; when he closes his lips, he is deemed intelligent.

I really don't care about specifics, as long as it eliminates the Tiresmoke Fests that a lot of Saturday sessions have become...

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Shift for Brains!!!!

Absolutely, they would all shuffle down except you bumped down 1 to many and the 4th quickest that wasn't quicker than 12 would be 16. You still have to fill in with 4 cars no matter what. Don't you know I have to always be right!

One other thought is how will this affect Indy with the extra session and the Skoal Shootout?

Look at it this way: After Friday is concluded (regardless of sessions completed, I've learned) we will have 12 provisional qualifiers. All other times from Friday will be thrown out since they wouldn't put you in the show.

After Saturday is concluded, the other four spots are filled from that day's quickest performers not already in the 1-12 spots.

But any position from 1 -12 can be gained in any of the sessions assuming that a Saturday run is quicker than someone's Friday run holding one of those spots.

Good weather scenario: with good weather throughout the weekend, performances are great every session and we'll see bumping all four sessions just like we did in previous years.

Bad weather scenario: The Friday night session is killer but it's hot and humid all day Saturday. The quickest 12 from Friday start Saturday in their provisional spots. Greg/Jeg/Dave missed badly on Friday but manages to run quick enough in the heat on Saturday to jump into the 10th positition. The 12th spot is bumped out and the previous 11th place moves to 12th.

As is often the case, no one else is able to improve. The four next quickest cars on Saturday who are not already in the 1-12th spots move in the 13th to 16th spots.

With the ladder set up the way it is, this may put a huge premium on qualifying 1-4 at the end of Saturday.

(edited for further thoughts)
Then again, the best position to end up in may be 5th. You wouldn't have to meet a team with strong momentum which had figured out a hot day / track better than anyone else. You'd meet someone who had a good cool weather / track tuneup but may have not figured out the hot weather / track yet.[/quote]


Thank you Dan...well done. I get it and I like it!
Dennis