Who got screwed by the countdown?

#31 11-06-2007, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis Fermano

In 2007 a leaker did win it , when The Army team was told to shut off on the line because of a Leak ..... Alan Johnson paid no attention, and ran anyway
resulting in a Leaker winning.

Huh? What incident was this?

#32 11-06-2007, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Burgess

Huh? What incident was this?

I think he is referring to last year. I was hoping no one would notice so we don't have to go down this road again. He must fail to remember the incident occurred in qualifying and Tony smoked the tires anyway, so the incident had no impact to last years title.

#33 11-06-2007, 09:06 AM

The only way to accept the countdown is to accept that the nhra championship is no longer about who has had the best season, basically it no longers means greatness. They've taken the competition out of racing and made it an entertainment contest. Lets just go the monster truck route and let fans in the stands hold of signs assigning points. It would have as much menaing as a coutndown champion.

Shoe, Tony P and Jeg each would have finished 3rd

People who lost out by the system (place they would have finsihed then were they did)
Melanie 7th (9)
Doug K 8th (10)
Fuller 1 (2)
Dixon 2 (4)
Todd 5 (7)

Hight 1
capss 2
Del 8

Greg 1
Connolly 2
Stevens 7
v gaines 8

People who were helped by the countdown place they finished vs were they would have been

Tony S 1 (3)
Tony p 1 (3)
Herbert 6 (out of top 10)
Jeg 1 (3)
Bazemore 8 (10)
WJ 8 (10)
Larry Morgan 7 (9)
Head 8 (9)
Scelzi 3 (4)
Vandergriff 5 (6)

#34 11-06-2007, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted Hunter

Nobody got "screwed".

This year the qualifications for becoming the champion were different than in previous years. Basically it was a different game with different milestones and different variables. Every champion fully deserved their title and to those who did not win it was more heartbreaking than usual, but it was a different game with different rules and that is just how it worked.

I remember when the champions were crowned at the World Finals, a one race shot to determine the champion, before the modern points era. When the points came into being it was hailed as a good thing by the racers.

This time NHRA decided on a format that actually did not synchronize with a system that has been successfully in existence for many years. That was the only mistake, in my opinion.

Had the new format been executed in a manner consistent with the old points system, nobody would be complaining.

The failure, in my opinion, is simply the lack of integrity that has been introduced to the concept os "season champion".

Unlike the baseball or football playoffs, the system introduced by NHRA allowed teams not involved with the championship to continue to compete (I know they felt they had to do it this way), and that factor undermined the credibility and integrity of the Countown.

The problem was purely mathematical and I believe rests fully on the shoulders of the people responsible for determining the format and deciding on its implementation. It should not take a rocket scientists to have figured out the odds of something like this happening.

That said, I want everyone to know that the professionals who were crowned 2007 Champions are evry bit as worthy as those who some may say "should" have been champs. It was a different game and those who won played it better and more successfully than their competitors.

This should not be a whining or argumentative discussion, in my opinion, but a conversation about how to improve the Countdown concept to the benefit of all concerned, Racers, Fans, and the NHRA for the betterment of our sport.

NHRA's first nitro funny car champ lives about five minutes from me. While it's something I love to point out about him, I also realize it was in the "national championship" infancy of the sport and, I believe that going to what we now call the "traditional" method of determining a champ was a good change. I wonder what the online debates would have been like at that time if there'd been an internet?

Yeah, I'm sure we'd all HATE to see nitro funny cars brought back to the divisional races. It wouldn't do ANYTHING for the attendance numbers.

#35 11-06-2007, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel Davidowicz

second round loss (Hines - possible malfunction?).

No malfunction.....I hope no one tried that as a reason for Hines to lose. The bike rolled out of the beams.

#36 11-06-2007, 11:56 AM

As long as the stats were calculated correctly I guess no one got screwed.
After all, I'm pretty sure each driver left the line in Round 1 of qualifying in Pomona back in February knowing what they had to do to earn a title.

#37 11-06-2007, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Gunther

... Nothing worse than half the championship in-the-bag by Maple Grove.

Kindly remind us when that happened last!?!?

#38 11-06-2007, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PJ Sapienza

The only way to accept the countdown is to accept that the nhra championship is no longer about who has had the best season, basically it no longers means greatness. They've taken the competition out of racing and made it an entertainment contest. Lets just go the monster truck route and let fans in the stands hold of signs assigning points. It would have as much menaing as a coutndown champion.

Shoe, Tony P and Jeg each would have finished 3rd

People who lost out by the system (place they would have finsihed then were they did)
Melanie 7th (9)
Doug K 8th (10)
Fuller 1 (2)
Dixon 2 (4)
Todd 5 (7)

Hight 1
capss 2
Del 8

Greg 1
Connolly 2
Stevens 7
v gaines 8

People who were helped by the countdown place they finished vs were they would have been

Tony S 1 (3)
Tony p 1 (3)
Herbert 6 (out of top 10)
Jeg 1 (3)
Bazemore 8 (10)
WJ 8 (10)
Larry Morgan 7 (9)
Head 8 (9)
Scelzi 3 (4)
Vandergriff 5 (6)

OK, there you go. This is what I was looking for when I started this thread. So basically all of the pro cars got the shaft, what about PSB?Jay

#39 11-06-2007, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Rathman

Here you go....

http://http://www.nitromater.com/nhr...down-poll.html

Jay,
I wasn't able to follow that link.

However, a poll taken on Nitromater could hardly be considered scientific or statistically significant sampling of ALL NHRA MEMBERS.

BTW: I did review the poll posted after the Finals and, just the way the question was posed "The CRAPDOWN" ?? was just a tad biased. Wouldn't you agree?

#40 11-06-2007, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Rathman

We all have, and are certainly entiltled to our opinions, Rich....With the polls showing 80%+ of fans NOT liking the countown, thats tough to ignore...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Rathman

Lance....If you don't have something nice to say, then don't say anything...I don't believe anyone asked for you to post a comment here, did they?

I dunno Jay, according to your post yesterday, we're NOT all entitled to our opinions!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis Fermano

I wonder how many less World Championships Garlits would have won under this system.

Or how many MORE he would have won??? He was usually hot at the end of the season!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Dunlap

..............I believe that going to what we now call the "traditional" method of determining a champ was a good change. I wonder what the online debates would have been like at that time if there'd been an internet?

Probably not nearly as bad as when the NFL decided to go to a playoff system in 1946 to crown their Champions..............I'll bet they had many PJ's back then!

#41 11-06-2007, 12:34 PM

Those that were "screwed" most were the sponsors of the cars that did not make the "Countdown". Almost no attention was paid to the "lesser cars" by the media the past 2 months.

The countdown was purely an attempt to add extra drama earlier than normal.

The countdown sucks!

Danny

#42 11-06-2007, 01:32 PM

Sorry Jay I haven't seen bikes yet. I know Angelle would have finished higher but beyond that I don't know

Lance, Lance, Lance. We've gone over why the nfl playoffs work.

I don't like the coutdown under any situation but it would be much more tolerable if the playoff contenders oh I don't know actually raced each other during the playoffs.

I went through and looked at the champs from Indy on and who they raced over the entire stretch.

Do you know that Tony Pedregon did not beat any of the final 4 racers from Indy on and only 1 of the 8 countdown players?

Schumacher managed 2 wins against the top 4 guys the other round wins came against non playoff teams

Jeg had 2 wins against the top 4 and 2 more against the top 8.

people keep wanting to use other sports as a reason as to why we need the countdown. In those sports teams actually play against other teams in the playoffs.

If they want to make it more legit in the eyes of us evil diehards then for the final 8 rank them 1-8 based on points and thats how round 1 is set up. The other 8 spots can go to non countdown teams based on qualifying. THis way a playoff and non playoff team don't race each other until the final.

Once they drop to 4 then its the same way those four seeded 1-4 reace in other in round 1 then the 2 winners in round two. The remaining spots are open to non countdown cars.

While we could still easily end up with the champ still not being the best at least they would have actually raced and beaten the other playoff teams.

#43 11-06-2007, 01:54 PM

I understand that we've gone over the differences between NFL and NHRA.

What I am saying is that you can bet there were screams heard country wide about changing the way that Football Champions were crowned. Can you imagine what people thought back then? NFL will be resetting everyone's record for a playoff system, and that even the team with the highest winning season could be eliminated by a team with a less winning record.

Say it ain't so!

#44 11-06-2007, 01:55 PM

na no complaints then, they didn't have the internet

#45 11-06-2007, 02:06 PM

Back in the 70's [and maybe before], weren't the champions crowned by who won the World Finals at the end of the season, without keeping 'points' for the entire season? And if I'm correct about that [which I might NOT be], does that make their championships not legitimate since they had a different points system?

I might be wrong......somebody with some grey hair provide a little help..