What did Murf do to you, Terry. You seem to have a real grudge against this company. How many Murf cars are out there? How many HAVEN'T broken?

We're all aware that Steve's stuff rocks..but Murf is doing ok don't ya think??

__________________
.
.
--Medicated for your safety!!--

Your right, it's not always a speed issue at failure time. It's really a stress issue which builds with each use. If every lap started with ALL new everything then we wouldn't be having this conversation. I'm saying the chassis and tire needs to withstand the stress from each usage so that the point of failure allows an increased safety margin. One way to do this is to lower the accumulative stress of each lap by reducing the loads created by the speed and acceleration during the final 320 feet.

I'm not a big fan of 1000 ft races but I am a big fan of drag racing and safety. All I'm saying is don't allow any modificatioms to make the nitro cars run faster/quicker. Just limit them and them only to 1000 feet.

John Water's pretty much echoed what I said on the previous page. The tires that fuel cars are currently running are maxed out, it's a huge disaster waiting to happen again and again. Take away some of the down force and it fixes alot of things, especially the tire issue.

By trying to make these guys run the same block, etc. for an entire event wipes out decades of technology.

With all due respect removing down force will solve that problem but it brings its own set of problems with it. Right now the pro stocks are about at the limit of their stability due to a lack of down force. I don't think anyone wants to drive one at 275 or more. Same wih fuel cars. Don't create another set of problems to solve this one.

There's alot to be said of the rutters that the alky funny cars are running.

That's very true and wouldn't require a great dea of change.

Give this some thought. Just like current increased safety requirments as ET lowers how about "any class whose national Et record is 5.0 or lower AND has a national speed record of 300MPH or greater shall compete at 1000 ft. No other change is required or in fact allowed.

John...
I like it and withdraw my proposed rule change...

__________________
Comfortably Numb- Fly Navy, Build SEABEES
A friend helps you move, A Real Friend helps you Move Bodies
http://www.myspace.com/ocir_forever

Steve NEVER stopped building cars. He just can't turn out enough of them for Force's team. BTW, those were chilling comments by Killah(Jeff Utterback) on the other board. Perhaps we will wind up with duplicates of a 70's Logghe car! Interesting chassis changes. I wonder what else will follow?

John Waters...that is a STOUT answer to all of this! Love the idea.

Daryl...Yes Jeff U. is a straight-up type of guy and will speak the truth...
When Force could not hire Plueger exclusively he opted for Murf as McKinney can produce more chassis' in a shorter time frame...Plueger has done work for me and I am always amazed w/ his abilities...Steve is no young pup and he still can pull all-nighters. Simply one of the best still putting out un-selfish work...

Check out Capps' blog on espn.com, he talks about a conference call with Murf Mckinney ESPN - Capps: On the outside looking in - Racing

S/F
D

Seems obvious that Murf has lots of support from the people that actually count.

__________________
.
.
--Medicated for your safety!!--

Plueger says if he is required to heat treat the two chassis he has on the jig he will cut them up and make nostalgia funny cars out of them and be done with it.

On another board someone admits that the only heat treated tubes in JF's cars were the upper and lower frame rails. Not being totally privy to all that, aren't those the frame rails that broke?

A phrase is being coined by a few of the major chassis builders who were told their opinions were "irrelevant" back when the heat treat issue was first discussed is this: In refering to heat treated 4130 (considering that non-heated treated tubing is 4130 or 4130N normalized) the heat treated welded tubing in the future should be refered to as "Abnormalized."

While several seem to think all chassis builders use the same design in FC, it simply isn't true. Side by side comparisons will show you significant design differences. Very significant. The only similarity is where the driver is positioned (even the tubes around the driver are different). Other than that they are not the same.

Having said that, we have seen that Steve Plueger's cars with John Force at the wheel have gone through some very violent episodes and have not come close to self destructing. The reason? Scroll back through the posts and reread my bridge analogy. The two bridges built in 1906.

Here in California we have seen older bridges go through extensive earthquake retrofits as more and more is learned about seismic loads. However, we see adjacent bridges which remain untouched. Why? Because the engineers got them right the first time.

While we applaud all those involved in the scurry to make safe the funny car chassis already in the field by adding a spaghetti-like complilation of tubes and brackets in the driver's compartment, we have to ask ourselves one question. Could the biggest leap forward actually be listening to the larger group and their vast experience, plus the engineers with doctorates and stress analysis equipment who are encouraging a leap backwards. A leap back to a point we never should have left in the first place?

Has John Force ever fallen out of any of Plueger's cars when he blew the tires and flipped them over? Did Del ever get launched out of any of his multiple chassis bending wrecks? Al Hoffman hit the opening of the guardrail at who knows where at almost 300 miles per hour and the car saved his life. What other wreck made us hold our collective breath more than that one? Mike Dunn "walked" away from some nasty FC wrecks, too. Isn't he the one who rode out an engine explosion that actually threw the engine OUT OF THE CAR, yet the frame remained intact and saved his life? 28 years and no fatalities. Now we have a problem? What changed? We know the answer I believe.

For some reason in an effort to take chassis technology to the next level have we fallen off the ladder and hit ourselves in the @$$. Time to admit something is wrong and be man enough to admit it.

RG

Randy...Well said and there are a few other boards where current owners/drivers (like yourself) are saying the same thing...When I saw those pics of the new re-enforcement on the Johnson Jr's car I thought what have they done now....I guess when your the only one building assembly line type of chassis and putting them out quickly and employ a hi-tech computer system w/ engineers everyone bows to ya and buys your stuff....I agree...get back to the basics....

The heat treating is unessesary and probably the reason John's car broke, I've noticed here lately when welding chrome molly that sometimes the welds start out ugly (kinda splatters when welding, changed rods, tungston, and argon, no difference) I'll remove those pieces tubing and replace them with other pieces of tubing it will weld up real nice. In my opinion probably when they heat treat the tubing "the bad section", if there is one in the preticular piece being heat treated could become brittle after heat treating, and fail when the piece is subjected to very severe vibration, like when a tire comes apart. Seems like the steel is not as good as it used to be, alot like other things made nowadays.

__________________
"I'm pi$$ed at all most everthing."

It has to do with grain structure and the effect welding has on it plus point of yield. There are other factors, too. It isn't all about the tube being brittle.