Anyone know why so few cars have run in the first qualifying session... I think only 17 PS and about the same for FC ?

According to NHRA.com entry list there were only 16 PS and 16 FC cars entered.

For a limited budget team, they need to wait until Saturday when their one run will qualify.

I agree. Makes more sense to make a Saturday run instead of Friday since 13and down is erased before Saturday runs.

I agree. Makes more sense to make a Saturday run instead of Friday since 13and down is erased before Saturday runs.

NHRA created their own problem by having only the top 12 runs carrying over to Saturday. Even if a low budget team could run a good pass on Friday night, if it didn't make the top 12, then it would be thrown out and they would HAVE to make another pass on Saturday. The low budget teams don't have much choice other than to wait to qualify on Saturday as at least then their run will count no matter what. Bad for the Friday fans, bad for NHRA car counts, but good for the teams.

>>>"NHRA created their own problem by having only the top 12 runs carrying over to Saturday."<<<

Can somebody who understands NHRA's thinking on this please explain to me exactly what this "twelve" business is supposed to accomplish, and for whom?

I REALLY don't understand the rationale here...

For a limited budget team, they need to wait until Saturday when their one run will qualify.



Terry Haddock made both runs today.

Alan

[QUOTE=Alan Reinhart;215191][FONT="Georgia"][SIZE="3"][COLOR="Red"]Terry Haddock made both runs today.

And how did that help his program by spending his budget ?
Hopefully he's getting paid from his event sponsor for all the qualifying runs?

Terry's not really a fair case, he's local. His team sleeps at home this weekend, and not much in the way of transportation expenses... That changes a lot.

Terry Haddock made both runs today.

Alan

Alan, I noticed that :o

Of course as soon as I typed that post, what do some of the low budget teams do? They make Friday evening qualifying runs. :D

So much for that theory, although I still don't like the fact that only the top 12 runs carry over to Saturday. When there were 17-20 cars entered, it sorta made sense, but now with short fields or only 16 caars on the premises, it can be in the teams best interest to make a run when it counts the most. There's no perfect answer or solution to the problem, I just hope NHRA doesn't force teams to make a qualifying run each day if it is just to force the issue. Not saying it is going to happen, just a rumour I heard...probably on this board.

This 12 car thing where the bottom 4 stats get thrown out is stupid.

This year, because of that rule, 2 drivers have gone to eliminations without a qualifying stats.

See Rit Pustari at Etown and Jack Wyatt at Topeka.

I've never seen this before. The only other race close to that is the Fall Dallas 2000 race, where everyone didn't get a qualifying stat and then raced on Sunday.

i think you have to refer to these 16 car fields as "short fields." the first round of eliminations are basically bye runs (at least for the 1st thru 4th qualifiers in most instances). i would bet some of the pro stock cars would have an easier time beating a top half qualifier than some of the field fillers in tf and fc. this is not a knock on any of those lower qualified teams personally, but just watch and see for yourself.

i think you have to refer to these 16 car fields as "short fields." the first round of eliminations are basically bye runs (at least for the 1st thru 4th qualifiers in most instances). i would bet some of the pro stock cars would have an easier time beating a top half qualifier than some of the field fillers in tf and fc. this is not a knock on any of those lower qualified teams personally, but just watch and see for yourself.

Jason you mean like this?

1. Allen Johnson 6.571 210.21 V 16. Danny Gruninger 15.686 153.09

no. i mean putting mike edwards vs spencer massey, rather than ron smith. i'd say edwards would have a better chance.

I was am watching the NHRA nationals in Seattle.. Pro Stock cars are running their last qualifying session & the stands are 1/2 empty, & there are only 16 cars attempting to qualify in PS.. Hell I remember this yr. at E Town there were app 22 PS cars... and 20 FC..

I'm not sure how may FC or TF they have.. I remember at E Town 6 or 7 years ago there were 25+ Pro Stockers... ans 20+ Funny Cars..

I'm going to the Keystones in Pa. next month and at this rate I'm wondering if they (NHRA) will even have full fields? :(

In All 3 Pro Classes there are only 16 TOTAL Cars in Each Class!

OK...I kinda like the idea that all 16 position can't be filled on Friday night

often it was a complete waste of time to run on Saturday, especially in Pro Stock, since the condition were so much worse than during the Friday night session...it made the final qualifying round a test and tune session

and really, if you're a low buck team and only want to make the minimum number of runs to try and save a few (or more than a few) dollars, wouldn't it make more sense to make that run on Saturday, when the conditions are more like Sunday, and there are typically more fans in the stands? (and a there is better chance of some TV coverage?)

I guess I just don't see the big difference between having teams skip the Friday session because their time might not count, and skipping the Saturday session because they couldn't improve their position from Friday night :confused:

i think you have to refer to these 16 car fields as "short fields." the first round of eliminations are basically bye runs (at least for the 1st thru 4th qualifiers in most instances). i would bet some of the pro stock cars would have an easier time beating a top half qualifier than some of the field fillers in tf and fc. this is not a knock on any of those lower qualified teams personally, but just watch and see for yourself.

Oh please...sure it's a knock.

Oh please...sure it's a knock.

listen. i understand all of the guys in the field pour their heart and soul and hard earned money into their operations. but the bottom line is that the nhra has got to pay more to get more quality cars to these shows. i am sure the attendance numbers at the end of the year will reflect the rather poor competition that has occurred on the track this year. especially the absence of any importance whatsoever of the qualifying sessions.

i love seeing 16 over 1, etc, but this year, it has not happened (unless a regular is in that slot). the non-regulars have performed poorly. the round 1 brackets are easily predictable this year. 1,000 ft has a lot to do with it too.

Oh please...sure it's a knock.

Mike Miller is "Not Too Far Off The Mark"

In FC the #16 car ran 5.57 vs PS 6.60

In TF

15 ran 8.75
16 ran 20.02

So of course if the TF was actually running vs a PS they (TF) would give it a very soft set up and run 5.90 and win ..BUT if they The TF Car was trying as it would in competition it may blow the tires off or just not make it down the track as we see in this race...

Personally I'm more of a PS fan (closer racing) than the fuel classes.. but I still enjoy the Fuel classes, and LOVE Comp Eliminator.. That is where you really see ingenuity!!

Realisticly ..right now.. paying more to get more "quaility" teams won't get the "better" operations out to run the events.... alot of those teams don't exist anymore becasue they have NO funds of any kind to keep the crew on the payroll.... so if that moneys gone for the crew.... then no money for parts to race either.... BUT.. if they did pay a bit more it might help the lower budgeted teams buy better parts to make more/better laps....


Billy

Mike Miller is "Not Too Far Off The Mark"

In FC the #16 car ran 5.57 vs PS 6.60

In TF

15 ran 8.75
16 ran 20.02

So of course if the TF was actually running vs a PS they (TF) would give it a very soft set up and run 5.90 and win ..BUT if they The TF Car was trying as it would in competition it may blow the tires off or just not make it down the track as we see in this race...

Personally I'm more of a PS fan (closer racing) than the fuel classes.. but I still enjoy the Fuel classes, and LOVE Comp Eliminator.. That is where you really see ingenuity!!

John, the 15 and 16th qualifier in top fuel are Steve Chrisman and Joe Hartley.

Chrisman's car has actually performed pretty well this season for what it is.(no clutch management)

Joe Hartley is a former no. 1 qualifier and national event runner up. Also I believe they have 3 round one wins this season.

listen. i understand all of the guys in the field pour their heart and soul and hard earned money into their operations. but the bottom line is that the nhra has got to pay more to get more quality cars to these shows. i am sure the attendance numbers at the end of the year will reflect the rather poor competition that has occurred on the track this year. especially the absence of any importance whatsoever of the qualifying sessions.

i love seeing 16 over 1, etc, but this year, it has not happened (unless a regular is in that slot). the non-regulars have performed poorly. the round 1 brackets are easily predictable this year. 1,000 ft has a lot to do with it too.

Jason, you should be much more concerned about why it's cost 2-3 million dollars a year to run a nitro car and not whether or not Grant Downing offends your drag racing sensibility.

Jason, you should be much more concerned about why it's cost 2-3 million dollars a year to run a nitro car and not whether or not Grant Downing offends your drag racing sensibility.

the only concern i have is whether the nhra can financially survive the next few years. it is no secret that the stands at most events this year have been quite empty on friday and saturday, maybe a little better on sunday. a string of unsponsored races is coming up. many stars are sitting on the sidelines. many race teams have inadequate sponsorship.

blame the economy, but the truth is that when the economy starts to pick up, there will be another fuel crisis, with diesel going over 5 bucks a gallon. mark it down.

all i'm saying is that with all of the above factors, having 16 cars with no competition for getting in the show is going to continue to kill the numbers. sorry if you don't like it, but look at attendance and tv viewership....

the only concern i have is whether the nhra can financially survive the next few years. it is no secret that the stands at most events this year have been quite empty on friday and saturday, maybe a little better on sunday. a string of unsponsored races is coming up. many stars are sitting on the sidelines. many race teams have inadequate sponsorship.

blame the economy, but the truth is that when the economy starts to pick up, there will be another fuel crisis, with diesel going over 5 bucks a gallon. mark it down.

all i'm saying is that with all of the above factors, having 16 cars with no competition for getting in the show is going to continue to kill the numbers. sorry if you don't like it, but look at attendance and tv viewership....

Jason, attendance and T.V. viewership has been a problem for quite sometime.

right, but have paychecks started bouncing yet?

>>>"NHRA created their own problem by having only the top 12 runs carrying over to Saturday."<<<

Can somebody who understands NHRA's thinking on this please explain to me exactly what this "twelve" business is supposed to accomplish, and for whom?

I REALLY don't understand the rationale here...

Does ANYBODY?????????

Because the friday night session usually has the best conditions. If you dodn't make a good pass then, you probably wouldn't make the show. When there's only 16 cars it doesn't matter. But with higher car counts it does. So they take the top 12 runs only so that teams that have something happen still have a shot at the field.

>>>"NHRA created their own problem by having only the top 12 runs carrying over to Saturday."<<<

Can somebody who understands NHRA's thinking on this please explain to me exactly what this "twelve" business is supposed to accomplish, and for whom?

I REALLY don't understand the rationale here...

Does ANYBODY?????????

Hey Bill - Explaining it and having a rationale for it are two different things.:D
I'm lol as I write...I can explain it, but the part were the bottom 4 driver's stats are thrown out from Friday and he still qualifies, when they don't make a run on Saturday AND there are just 16 cars, has no rationale.

Those drivers qualify with a position only...see my previous post for the 2 drivers who have done that this year already.

So, I'm saying, why throw out the Friday qualifying stats? The whole process doesn't seem to be thought all the way through.

Thanks, Gary and James. It didn't make a lot of sense to me....

Still doesn't.

I appreciate the explanation and the insight, though. I do...

Bill (shaking his head..)

Back to the topic at hand: the turnout in Seattle. I asked the NHRA, and they said there were 372 cars there this year, vs. 375 last year. No one I know buys that. The road course (e.g. the sportsman pits) were at least half as empty as last year, at least that was the general consensus among the racers.

The fan turnout seemed lighter, especially on Saturday, although it looked to be a full house on Sunday. Weirdly, the usual hour wait on the freeway Sunday am was completely gone, we cruised right in. It seemed that actually having the cops directing traffic (as opposed to sitting on their motorcycles watching the mess) made a HUGE difference. Also not charging for parking, which really slows down the entry, seemed to make a big difference as well.

All in all, it seems that the management at Pacific Raceways did some things better this year, to make it not quite the mess it has been. But the turnout of both racers and fans did seem significantly off from years passed.

Back to the topic at hand: the turnout in Seattle. I asked the NHRA, and they said there were 372 cars there this year, vs. 375 last year. No one I know buys that. The road course (e.g. the sportsman pits) were at least half as empty as last year, at least that was the general consensus among the racers.

The fan turnout seemed lighter, especially on Saturday, although it looked to be a full house on Sunday. Weirdly, the usual hour wait on the freeway Sunday am was completely gone, we cruised right in. It seemed that actually having the cops directing traffic (as opposed to sitting on their motorcycles watching the mess) made a HUGE difference. Also not charging for parking, which really slows down the entry, seemed to make a big difference as well.

All in all, it seems that the management at Pacific Raceways did some things better this year, to make it not quite the mess it has been. But the turnout of both racers and fans did seem significantly off from years passed.


I agree. We were running a little late on Sunday and thought we were still going to have to dread the awful lines of traffic off of highway 18 but much to our surprise there was no lines either Saturday or Sunday. We had reserved seating and our row plus the two in front of us and the two behind us only had about 3 people in each row...I thought attendance was way down along with racers as well. I understand that it's the western swing and not many teams can make it out there but I was expecting a little more.

Back to the topic at hand: the turnout in Seattle. I asked the NHRA, and they said there were 372 cars there this year, vs. 375 last year. No one I know buys that ... Chris,
A little math takes car of the car count. Can't speak to the crowds although it looked awful on TV. If you use the DRC qualifying sheets and ladders ...

Super Street = 56
Super Gas = 60
Super Comp = 66
Stock = 50
Super Stock = 22
Comp = 27
TAD = 15
TAFC = 19
PS = 16
FC = 16
TF = 16

Total Cars = 363 (pretty close to what you were told). Each of these entries made a run and had a name and car #. The numbers can't be ficticious.;)

Chris,
A little math takes car of the car count.
...
Total Cars = 363 (pretty close to what you were told). Each of these entries made a run and had a name and car #. The numbers can't be ficticious.;)

OK, then... we don't know where they all were... Perhaps with the light Pro count, that made for a lot more room for the sportsman racers -- given the appox. 2 to 1 space requirements pro vs. sportsman...??